Dangerous roads!

[shrimperman]

I'd like to know how these statistics represent the percentage increase/decrease of foriegn drivers in the UK from 2001 to 2006

 

[graysblue]

at the moment foreign drivers are allowed to do whatever they fancy on british roads as the law has virtually no say.

london 2004,
foreign drivers commited 330,000 parking offences yet only 4.5% could be traced meaning an unpaid parking bill of £13,000,000.

during the 1st 2 years of the congestion zone charge 65,000 foreign registered vehicles were caught on camera,yet only 1,993 paid.

the above offences were enforced to ensure london has flowing traffic as best as possible,it beggers belief this country is powerless to stop those from flounting the law whilst us mugs are clobbered.

1,148 speeding foreigners were captured on camera yet none could be traced.

UK 2007,

there were an estimated 30,000 foreign registered vehilcles captured on camera for various offences,none were prosecuted.

there are an estimated 350,000 foreign drivers who have no insurance and will cost the UK economy £795,000,000 in costs for emergency services and traffic congestion.

drive carefully out there.

 

[Perth Bambi]

at the moment foreign drivers are allowed to do whatever they fancy on british roads as the law has virtually no say.

london 2004,
foreign drivers commited 330,000 parking offences yet only 4.5% could be traced meaning an unpaid parking bill of £13,000,000.

during the 1st 2 years of the congestion zone charge 65,000 foreign registered vehicles were caught on camera,yet only 1,993 paid.

the above offences were enforced to ensure london has flowing traffic as best as possible,it beggers belief this country is powerless to stop those from flounting the law whilst us mugs are clobbered.

1,148 speeding foreigners were captured on camera yet none could be traced.

UK 2007,

there were an estimated 30,000 foreign registered vehilcles captured on camera for various offences,none were prosecuted.

there are an estimated 350,000 foreign drivers who have no insurance and will cost the UK economy £795,000,000 in costs for emergency services and traffic congestion.

drive carefully out there.

I am interested to know how they come up with these stats (this isn't a dig at you, i am really interested) If they know the car is owned by a foreign driver they must be registered somewhere aying tax and insurance(which kind of makes last weeks arguement about not paying tax and insurance look a bit stupid) Therefore if they tax or insurance they must give an address. I guess they could just give a fake one but surely that isn't particuarly easy today.

 

[Nobby Snide]

hey, guess what..I just baught a car to drive back to England in , and guess what..its got a false MOT on it..bloody foreigners..oops, he was English...from Essex...doh!!

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

I'd like to know how these statistics represent the percentage increase/decrease of foriegn drivers in the UK from 2001 to 2006

Took 6 pages to get to this. Without this information the statistics are at best faulty, at worst deliberately misleading.

Think about it, if the amount of accidents caused by a partticular nationality has doubled, but the amount of people of that national;ity driving over here has trebled, then it's surely not quite so controversial?

We really need to see the % of each nation these crashes relate to, and have that compared to GB as a whole. Then we can see how much higher (if at all) the danger from foreign drivers is. Without that, it's like saying "I saw a Latvian shoplifter, so they must all be thieves!"

Ridiculous is, I believe, the word.

 

[Desert Shrimper]

My mate used to live in Paris and drove around in his English registered car collecting parking tickets that would never be paid as their system didn't trace foreign vehicles. He literally had more than a glove box full of them and was quite proud of it.

He's not African.

Do you think this is an amazing story Graysblue? Perhaps he is 1% African and never realised it?

 

[graysblue]

My mate used to live in Paris and drove around in his English registered car collecting parking tickets that would never be paid as their system didn't trace foreign vehicles. He literally had more than a glove box full of them and was quite proud of it.

He's not African.

Do you think this is an amazing story Graysblue? Perhaps he is 1% African and never realised it?

having never met your pal i have no idea..............dont you know if he is part african?

besides i dont drive in france .

have a nice day

 

[Desert Shrimper]

having never met your pal i have no idea..............dont you know if he is part african?

besides i dont drive in france .

have a nice day

Well he doesn't look it at all but he's the most pony driver I've ever had to endure (when we worked together in Spain I used to try to go to sleep to avoid the stress of watching him nearly kill us) and he mugs a European nation off for parking tickets. How can he be completely British?

 

[graysblue]

Well he doesn't look it at all but he's the most pony driver I've ever had to endure (when we worked together in Spain I used to try to go to sleep to avoid the stress of watching him nearly kill us) and he mugs a European nation off for parking tickets. How can he be completely British?

is this a cryptic message? any chance of a decode because i have not got the faintest idea of the point you are making.

 

[Desert Shrimper]

is this a cryptic message? any chance of a decode because i have not got the faintest idea of the point you are making.

When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.

 

[graysblue]

When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.

now i understand,correct me if i am wrong.

your mate drove in france and thinks its good to break french law hence collecting a glove box full of unpaid fines???

this thread is regarding foreign drivers using british roads,note i did state british roads and not french,german,african.

personally what any other country does is none of my business however as a british taxpayer i have every right to question/query what is happening on british roads.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

now i understand,correct me if i am wrong.

your mate drove in france and thinks its good to break french law hence collecting a glove box full of unpaid fines???

this thread is regarding foreign drivers using british roads,note i did state british roads and not french,german,african.

personally what any other country does is none of my business however as a british taxpayer i have every right to question/query what is happening on british roads.

I think to be honest the point was your demonising of foreign drivers (well, obviously apart from those from nations we deem civilised, or western European) The point made was merely pointing out that these drivers aren't so different to our own.

 

[graysblue]

I think to be honest the point was your demonising of foreign drivers (well, obviously apart from those from nations we deem civilised, or western European) The point made was merely pointing out that these drivers aren't so different to our own.

i have not demonised anyone just pointed out the reports i have seen and which are freely available to all,no one forces these people to drive fast/dangerous and in many cases according to reports having no insurance.

i would be saying the same thing if for example 300,000 scousers/mancunians/ect did the same stuff without being nicked.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

i have not demonised anyone just pointed out the reports i have seen and which are freely available to all,no one forces these people to drive fast/dangerous and in many cases according to reports having no insurance.

i would be saying the same thing if for example 300,000 scousers/mancunians/ect did the same stuff without being nicked.

The hugely biased reports which don't show enough of the statistics to actually prove anything. They're not true statistics, they're headline statistics, used to highlight a viewpoint. The fact that you posted them leads me to wonder whether you a) believe the statistical analysis is in enough depth to show something, or b) you're using it to highlight your own viewpoint?

So, what is it? Naieve or misleading?

 

[graysblue]

The hugely biased reports which don't show enough of the statistics to actually prove anything. They're not true statistics, they're headline statistics, used to highlight a viewpoint. The fact that you posted them leads me to wonder whether you a) believe the statistical analysis is in enough depth to show something, or b) you're using it to highlight your own viewpoint?

So, what is it? Naieve or misleading?

sadly there are many such as yourself who only believe want you want to believe.

on the flipside why are some of you who appear to think its ok for foregners to commit offences not actually showing stats/figures which back your theory.

in other words disprove the facts/stats i have stated.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

sadly there are many such as yourself who only believe want you want to believe.

on the flipside why are some of you who appear to think its ok for foregners to commit offences not actually showing stats/figures which back your theory.

in other words disprove the facts/stats i have stated.

and therein lies the problem, you haven't stated any!

For the record, I'm not a lefty, foreigner loving open the doors to all type, however, one thing that really ticks me off is ignorance, and misinformation. Currently it seems both of these are in ample supply!

It's quite simple, all we want to see is the relative increase in foreign populations compared to the increase in accident numbers, or even the accidents caused by foreigners shown as a % of the total in the country. It's really not that difficault to grasp.

I'll give you an example....


Blue country.

list of accidents caused by non blue citizens...

1990 2000
green 1 5
red 7 50
yellow 47 5
brown 7 17


Look, those dirty reds are a danger, every one must be sent home. Still, at least yellows have learnt to drive.

Now lets look at populations of these within blue country (figures in '000s)

1990 2000
Green 1 5
Red 1 250
Yellow 47 0.001
Brown 10 25


Ok, so what does that show?

5 causing accidents

1990 2000
Green 0.1 0.1
Red 0.7 0.05 oooh, haven't they improved?
Yellow 0.1 500 Hmm, one very bad person
Brown 0.07 0.068 Not much cnhange then


Suddenly the figures aren't so one sided.


Now, shall we consider the average for Blue citizens? If so we'd probably see they'd be slightly safer, due to knowing the roads a bit better (and being used to driving on the left side of the road)

However, Blue citizens live in affluent areas, fewer road users, so should we compare the figures with blue citizens, or blue citizens living/driving in similar areas to the other coloured nations (no, thats not being racist!)

Now, do you see what I'm getting at, the half arsed statistics you gave us only show a very limited viewpoint, abnd are seemingly used to support a certain opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you were naieve and didn't realise this, as I'd hate to think you were deliberately misleading people with these figures.

 

[graysblue]

and therein lies the problem, you haven't stated any!

For the record, I'm not a lefty, foreigner loving open the doors to all type, however, one thing that really ticks me off is ignorance, and misinformation. Currently it seems both of these are in ample supply!

It's quite simple, all we want to see is the relative increase in foreign populations compared to the increase in accident numbers, or even the accidents caused by foreigners shown as a % of the total in the country. It's really not that difficault to grasp.

I'll give you an example....


Blue country.

list of accidents caused by non blue citizens...

1990 2000
green 1 5
red 7 50
yellow 47 5
brown 7 17


Look, those dirty reds are a danger, every one must be sent home. Still, at least yellows have learnt to drive.

Now lets look at populations of these within blue country (figures in '000s)

1990 2000
Green 1 5
Red 1 250
Yellow 47 0.001
Brown 10 25


Ok, so what does that show?

5 causing accidents

1990 2000
Green 0.1 0.1
Red 0.7 0.05 oooh, haven't they improved?
Yellow 0.1 500 Hmm, one very bad person
Brown 0.07 0.068 Not much cnhange then


Suddenly the figures aren't so one sided.


Now, shall we consider the average for Blue citizens? If so we'd probably see they'd be slightly safer, due to knowing the roads a bit better (and being used to driving on the left side of the road)

However, Blue citizens live in affluent areas, fewer road users, so should we compare the figures with blue citizens, or blue citizens living/driving in similar areas to the other coloured nations (no, thats not being racist!)

Now, do you see what I'm getting at, the half arsed statistics you gave us only show a very limited viewpoint, abnd are seemingly used to support a certain opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you were naieve and didn't realise this, as I'd hate to think you were deliberately misleading people with these figures.

that post reads like some left wing nonsense.

you are probably far more skilful in obtaining info off the net than myself,instead of you posting what you think why not post actual info you have discovered.

it cannot be that diffulcult to discredit the info i have found.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

that post reads like some left wing nonsense.

you are probably far more skilful in obtaining info off the net than myself,instead of you posting what you think why not post actual info you have discovered.

it cannot be that diffulcult to discredit the info i have found.

Good grief, are you truly that blinkered?

left wing? Me? I've argued with MK enough times to have surely proven that comment to be the rubbish it is.

Anyway, i've tried several times to explain simply why your statistics only give a one sided view, yet you obviously refuse to accept this. Maybe it's because they support a viepoint you're happy with? I pity you, I really do, there's more to life than bitterness.

 

[graysblue]

Good grief, are you truly that blinkered?

left wing? Me? I've argued with MK enough times to have surely proven that comment to be the rubbish it is.

Anyway, i've tried several times to explain simply why your statistics only give a one sided view, yet you obviously refuse to accept this. Maybe it's because they support a viepoint you're happy with? I pity you, I really do, there's more to life than bitterness.

instead of further nonsense,

please post info to prove otherwise.why wont you do this?

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

instead of further nonsense,

please post info to prove otherwise.why wont you do this?

You know, I'm really beginning to lose patience with this. I'll try one more time to explain it, then i'll just give up.

I'm not arguing either side of the drivers arguement, I'm arguing that the statistics are incomplete and one sided.

I'll give one more analogy as an example.

take the equation x = 4+y

what does x equal? You don't know, because you don't know what y equals.

Do you need to know what y equals to know that this equation doesn't contain enough information? Of course you don't.


The statistics you've given us are similar to this equation, and you're telling us what x equals. I'm merely saying that there is insufficient data top draw an analysis. I don't need to provide that data to prove that point, just show the hole where it would be.

Put simply, if I was debunking your views, I'd need to supply data. I'm merely debunking your data, and as such have just to show that data's missing (which I already have several times)

I hope this clears it up for you