Dale farm evictions "may breach human rights"

[applelover]

Thank you for an honest answer. It seems that so many people are aware of the benefit fraud committed by the travellers, but no one can, or will do any thing about it.
As for the jobs thing, it's not that kind of fraud. It's lying about co-habiting and money coming in from the males. Also lying about savings and land and property that they own. Enabling the women to claim maximum benefits and tax credits for each child.

The benefit system is wide open for fraud. Stop people who are fit to work from claiming benefits and you go someway to solving the problem. You have to provide 100% employment to do this. End welfare dependency and you solve the social crisis

 

[steveo]

No this policy relates solely to traveller sites to deal with a current issue without spending 18 million. As I've said nearly all the fundamental rights you enjoy were gained with some form of law breaking involved. That is the history of social and political change.

I'm benfleet born and bred.

But if you granted an amnesty for these people, surely anyone else with an illegal building would also have to be included. Then how about people who have had structures removed that didn't have planning permission? Would they be able to claima retrospective amnesty and claim for costs?
You cant change the law to make allowances for something that has already infringed it. I think your amnesty would open a massive can of worms.

 

[applelover]

But if you granted an amnesty for these people, surely anyone else with an illegal building would also have to be included. Then how about people who have had structures removed that didn't have planning permission? Would they be able to claima retrospective amnesty and claim for costs?
You cant change the law to make allowances for something that has already infringed it. I think your amnesty would open a massive can of worms.

This is a distinct problem that transcends mere planning issues. It is not just a matter of a shed or extension that is blocking someones light out. This has major economic, social and cultural ramifications and needs special meassures to deal with it.

We need to look at how we deal with the travelling community in a constructive manner. Now I know that many on here maybe even you steveo think we can magic them away somehow, but that's not going to happen.

They are not going anywhere and neither are you. we need to deal with the situation not just throw insults.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

The benefit system is wide open for fraud. Stop people who are fit to work from claiming benefits and you go someway to solving the problem. You have to provide 100% employment to do this. End welfare dependency and you solve the social crisis

That's a whole new thread and debate.
The subject here is the travellers at Dale Farm, and how they seem to get away with things that you or I wouldn't.

 

[steveo]

Well I didn't throw any insults I was querying the practicalities of your amnesty idea.
With regard to how to deal with the travelling community, how about this for an idea.

Treat them the same as the non travelling community.

A bit radical I know but they could be made to pay tax, seek the proper planning permissions before building roads and houses, be prosecuted when convicted of benefit fraud and be subject to all the other laws that the non travelling community live by.
Pretty shocking but it might just work.

Good night.

 

[applelover]

Well I didn't throw any insults I was querying the practicalities of your amnesty idea.
With regard to how to deal with the travelling community, how about this for an idea.

Treat them the same as the non travelling community.

A bit radical I know but they could be made to pay tax, seek the proper planning permissions before building roads and houses, be prosecuted when convicted of benefit fraud and be subject to all the other laws that the non travelling community live by.
Pretty shocking but it might just work.

Good night.

Yes but tax evasion, flouting of planning laws and benefit fraud are evident throughout all communities. They are due to significant structural problems in our legal, political, economic and social set up.

I've outlined how i'd deal with these structural issues earlier. Amnesty is a cost effective solution to a current problem that would have stopped a great deal of money being wasted and cleared up a historical mess that should never have occurred in the first place. We have a mess and we need to deal with it efficiently and effectively. We could end this situation tomorrow and have the teeth to make sure it never happens again.

 

[steveo]

Amnesty is a cost effective solution to a current problem that would have stopped a great deal of money being wasted and cleared up a historical mess that should never have occurred in the first place. We have a mess and we need to deal with it efficiently and effectively. We could end this situation tomorrow and have the teeth to make sure it never happens again.

No it's not. It's a way of taking the easy option and giving in to a small minority whilst continuing to enforce the law on the majority.
Why don't you want us to have the teeth to stop it now?
I don't think you understand how these people work. Give them one thing then there will be another and another and another. They make a living from conning, fiddling and cheating. They would celebrate your amnesty as a massive victory and just move on to the next fiddle.

 

[applelover]

No it's not. It's a way of taking the easy option and giving in to a small minority whilst continuing to enforce the law on the majority.
Why don't you want us to have the teeth to stop it now?
I don't think you understand how these people work. Give them one thing then there will be another and another and another. They make a living from conning, fiddling and cheating. They would celebrate your amnesty as a massive victory and just move on to the next fiddle.

'They make a living from conning, fiddling and cheating.' does that not count as an insult?

We don't do it now because it's going to cost 18 million and basildon council are going to be forced to re-house them probably in a new site in the basildon area. I can't think of a bigger waste of money. You could probably eradicate youth unemployment in basildon with that sort of money.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I would be intrigued to know how applelover would eradicate unemployment and create all these jobs that he keeps talking about. Are we talking real jobs, that actually contribute something to the economy?

It wouldn't cost £18 million to hire a few tasty individuals who would decimate the site and drive the Irish invaders into the sea, so I don't really grasp your other point.

 

[steveo]

'They make a living from conning, fiddling and cheating.' does that not count as an insult?

That's their way of life so no, i don't think it is an insult.

 

[applelover]

I would be intrigued to know how applelover would eradicate unemployment and create all these jobs that he keeps talking about. Are we talking real jobs, that actually contribute something to the economy?

One of the few things we agree on rusty is the need for a small state so rest assured the jobs I think that should be created would be in either manafacturing or industry.

It wouldn't cost £18 million to hire a few tasty individuals who would decimate the site and drive the Irish invaders into the sea, so I don't really grasp your other point.

This would be a perfect solution if we lived in pre magna carta England, the Soviet union or China. Unfortunately we don't. Have you ever consider a move to China?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

This would be a perfect solution if we lived in pre magna carta England, the Soviet union or China. Unfortunately we don't. Have you ever consider a move to China?

No, I have never consider a move to China. You're so bold!

 

[Napster]

latest;

#dalefarm judge has rejected the challenges made against #Basildon Council's decisions of May, July & August

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

But they can appeal the decision. It's just ludicrous, surely this must be the end of it.

Judge rejects appeals

 

[jamesmut2000]

Send in the apaches quick!:winking:

 

[Bielzibubz]

Just seen this on the news. WTF was that **** of a protester doing behind Basildon Councillor holding up a placard during his interview saying in big black bold letters '15m gypsies murdered by the Nazi's'. And people wonder why there's no sympathy for them. With people like that idiot supposedly in support of them then who needs enemies?

I fully expect an appeal within 24 hours and then some hopeless 94 year old senile Judge who's spent the best years of his adult life living on another planet to the one we inhabit give them some sort of injunction on the basis that Mrs Sheridans aunt's next door neighbors dog back in Ireland has only got one leg and can't be put through the trauma of seeing one of his distant kith & kin being treated so poorly by the English establishment.

 

[Holy Joe]

If they are breaking criminal law on a daily basis why have they not been arrested?

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

If they are breaking criminal law on a daily basis why have they not been arrested?

A question many people would like answered. Perhaps this should be addressed to the police force, as they have always appeared to be reluctant to follow up accusations against the 'travelling communities' scattered around the country.

 

[Cricko]

If they are breaking criminal law on a daily basis why have they not been arrested?

Don't be silly,the police are far to busy chasing motorists and getting revenue in for the government to think about an actual crime.

 

[* ORM *]

You've all overlooked the most pressing questions .......


















Are any of them going on Saturday and how many are season ticket holders ?