Dale farm evictions "may breach human rights"

[Tangled up in Blue]

You missed my point entirely. Their background gets in the way of their education. Nothing to do with anything else. Children who turn up maybe 2 days a week, who have accompanying issues do NOT make progress because they miss too much schooling. When they do present at school, the staff have their teaching time disrupted because of the social issues. Frequently illiterate parents are unable to support the school at home and do not enforce, by any stretch, any of the strategies school puts in place. The teachers fight a constantly losing battle and as everything in education is based on results, is it any wonder that the particular school most of the Dale Farm kids go to will rather be looking forward to reclaiming the school for children from more stable backgrounds?

It seems to me that you're just showing the same type of prejudice against travellers' (children in this case) that you accused another poster of last week.Btw,as a qualified Remedial teacher, I'm aware of the sort of educational and social problems that children from this type of background face,which you outline here.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

It seems to me that you're just showing the same type of prejudice against travellers' (children in this case) that you accused another poster of last week.Btw,as a qualified Remedial teacher, I'm aware of the sort of educational and social problems that children from this type of background face,which you outline here.

I think your charges have been rubbing off on you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think your charges have been rubbing off on you.

I said I was qualified not (very)experienced in that particular educational field.

 

[OldBlueLady]

It seems to me that you're just showing the same type of prejudice against travellers' (children in this case) that you accused another poster of last week.Btw,as a qualified Remedial teacher, I'm aware of the sort of educational and social problems that children from this type of background face,which you outline here.

You really are the most exasperating man I think I've ever come across. Unlike you, I don't and haven't spent years acquiring qualifications (which you seem to remind us of at every opportunity), my experience in the school of hard knocks and on ground level qualifies me (so I believe) to speak with some authority on the wasted resources which have been thrown at children from poor social backgrounds (which typify the "Traveller" children). What of the children who have no choice but to attend the same school? Are they not entitled to have an education too?

I'll tell you what the brightest and most rounded girl in our class said last year when we had an open and anonymous forum - she said "Sometimes I wish that **** (the teacher) and **** (me) didn't have to spend so much time with the naughty children. Sometimes I wish that they could spend some time with me in class." It was heartbreaking to read, and THAT is what I mean. Her perception - which is what she would relay to her parents - was that the naughty kids get all the attention. It's nothing to do with prejudice, but successive educational policies have been directed at the children with problems and issues that in an area such as this, it's often the good children who get over looked because they can look after themselves in class.

Anyway, this is all beside the point. I think as far as the majority of people in this part of Essex believe, that the Dale Farm "Travellers" have acted illegally in building on green belt land and as such, their eviction is long overdue.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'll tell you what the brightest and most rounded girl in our class said last year when we had an open and anonymous forum - she said "Sometimes I wish that **** (the teacher)

She might be the brightest and most rounded, but she's clearly got a potty mouth.:omg:

 

[londonblue]

Do you always observe the speed limit to the letter?

No, but I try to keep to the numbers!!!!

 

[londonblue]

I'll tell you what the brightest and most rounded girl in our class said last year when we had an open and anonymous forum -

How do you know she said it if it was an anonymous forum?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It seems to me that you're just showing the same type of prejudice against travellers' (children in this case) that you accused another poster of last week.Btw,as a qualified Remedial teacher, I'm aware of the sort of educational and social problems that children from this type of background face,which you outline here.

Congratulations.

It's always heart-warming to hear when someone overcomes their special needs, to rise to a position of responsibility.

 

[OldBlueLady]

How do you know she said it if it was an anonymous forum?

Being only 9 and 10, the children hadn't thought to disguise their writing at all, so it was quite easy to recognise. Plus only children who have "pen licences" are allowed to use pens, everyone else uses pencils, and we've not got a lot in the class who've achieved their pen licences yet, and the response was in pen.

It was actually a really interesting exercise, the teacher followed up with the individual children after if any particular issues were raised and I know he discussed the comment with the child's mother.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You really are the most exasperating man I think I've ever come across. Unlike you, I don't and haven't spent years acquiring qualifications (which you seem to remind us of at every opportunity), my experience in the school of hard knocks and on ground level qualifies me (so I believe) to speak with some authority on the wasted resources which have been thrown at children from poor social backgrounds (which typify the "Traveller" children). What of the children who have no choice but to attend the same school? Are they not entitled to have an education too?

I'll tell you what the brightest and most rounded girl in our class said last year when we had an open and anonymous forum - she said "Sometimes I wish that **** (the teacher) and **** (me) didn't have to spend so much time with the naughty children. Sometimes I wish that they could spend some time with me in class." It was heartbreaking to read, and THAT is what I mean. Her perception - which is what she would relay to her parents - was that the naughty kids get all the attention. It's nothing to do with prejudice, but successive educational policies have been directed at the children with problems and issues that in an area such as this, it's often the good children who get over looked because they can look after themselves in class.

Anyway, this is all beside the point. I think as far as the majority of people in this part of Essex believe, that the Dale Farm "Travellers" have acted illegally in building on green belt land and as such, their eviction is long overdue.

Kay,
FWIW,it's obvious you're an intelligent and articulate woman.You're also,obviously,passionate and professional about what you do.I've read many of your posts on education with great interest.I've also wondered how a former WHSG pupil ended up as a TA.I'd assumed "hard knocks" was the reason and don't dispute the value of your experience,either.It's just that I happen to think you're wrong on this one.
In an ideal world there wouldn't be any disruptive children in classrooms,parents would all read stories to their kids etc.We both know that that's not going to happen,unfortunately.Incidentally,a school I used to work at, (on TP) in Northfleet, Kent used to believe that good discipline,both inside and outside the classroom, was the answer to all educational problems.It certainly made teaching there a piece of cake(as long as you were prepared to bully the kids into silence) but unfortunately it didn't produce children with good educational qualifications.That remains one(but not the only one) of the primary aims of a good education(IMO).What it did do though, was turn out a lot of kids who couldn't wait to be big enough to bully other kids themselves.I was so sickened by my experience there that I decided to move into adult education.

Back to the point.While I agree that (probably)the majority of people in SE Essex do believe that(some of) the residents of Dale Farm have acted illegally,the same argument could be(and often is)used about about the re-introduction of hanging(or caning for that matter,both of which I'm passionately against).Just because a majority of people support something doesn't make it (or them)right.
As Baldwin said about Lloyd George;-A dynamic force is a very terrible thing.It may crush you but it is not necessarily right."

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Congratulations.

It's always heart-warming to hear when someone overcomes their special needs, to rise to a position of responsibility.

I didn't say I was a remedial pupil.PGCE Social Studies/Remedial Education,FYI.:smiles:

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Kay,
FWIW,it's obvious you're an intelligent and articulate woman.You're also,obviously,passionate and professional about what you do.I've read many of your posts on education with great interest.I've also wondered how a former WHSG pupil ended up as a TA.I'd assumed "hard knocks" was the reason and don't dispute the value of your experience,either.

No, I'm not contributing to the debate, and yes, I am being abusive, but I have no choice after this collection of bon mots. You really are the worst kind of ignoramus and you have no right to be condescending to anybody. Go off and **** yourself Barnaby.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No, I'm not contributing to the debate, and yes, I am being abusive, but I have no choice after this collection of bon mots. You really are the worst kind of ignoramus and you have no right to be condescending to anybody. Go off and **** yourself Barnaby.

Rusty,
Your trouble is you don't recognise an honest opinion when you see one.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Congratulations.

It's always heart-warming to hear when someone overcomes their special needs, to rise to a position of responsibility.

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially as it culminated in your moderator position. Your life is undoubtedly now complete.

 

[Pubey]

You really are the most exasperating man I think I've ever come across. Unlike you, I don't and haven't spent years acquiring qualifications (which you seem to remind us of at every opportunity), my experience in the school of hard knocks and on ground level qualifies me (so I believe) to speak with some authority on the wasted resources which have been thrown at children from poor social backgrounds (which typify the "Traveller" children). What of the children who have no choice but to attend the same school? Are they not entitled to have an education too?

I'll tell you what the brightest and most rounded girl in our class said last year when we had an open and anonymous forum - she said "Sometimes I wish that **** (the teacher) and **** (me) didn't have to spend so much time with the naughty children. Sometimes I wish that they could spend some time with me in class." It was heartbreaking to read, and THAT is what I mean. Her perception - which is what she would relay to her parents - was that the naughty kids get all the attention. It's nothing to do with prejudice, but successive educational policies have been directed at the children with problems and issues that in an area such as this, it's often the good children who get over looked because they can look after themselves in class.

Anyway, this is all beside the point. I think as far as the majority of people in this part of Essex believe, that the Dale Farm "Travellers" have acted illegally in building on green belt land and as such, their eviction is long overdue.

 

[Napster]

Yeah, but what about the real question?



































Bart or Daryl?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially as it culminated in your moderator position. Your life is undoubtedly now complete.

Indeed, and I'd like to thank my friends, my family, my pets, the Shrimperzone owners and above all you, the Shrimperzone users, for making this happen. It's been emotional.

 

[Shrimper]

Here's a question to those that say it's wrong to evict them. If we don't and let them stay, it set's a precedent that it's okay to build illegally. This would no doubt spark hundreds of other similar sites across the country that we wouldn't have control over and would be wasting even more money to remove them. Removing Dale Farm is a number 1 priority as it'd open the floodgate if allowed to stand. I really do despair for the mental health of those that think it's okay for them to stay there because "they've built a community" - Using that same attitude I wouldn't be surprised if you don't want the London rioters to go to jail as it's "too harsh".

 

[londonblue]

It was actually a really interesting exercise, the teacher followed up with the individual children after if any particular issues were raised and I know he discussed the comment with the child's mother.

I know this is off topic, but I have a genuine issue with this. You tell a group of kids something is anonymous, and then discuss their responses with them. Can you not see that that is simply wrong?

 

[canveyshrimper]

Something we have in common then.:whistling:

Glad we've established that, but it doesn't answer my question.