Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

[kaymac]

Okay, I will say my piece....give it a rest for gauds sake!!!!

 

[Member]

More children under 10 have been murdered indoors by their own parents, step father/guardian than of Covid in 2020. That includes that wonderful term "covid related"

More young "promising footballers" have been stabbed to death than have died of Covid in 2020. Turns out playing football and all it involves, contact on the pitch changing rooms and transport is much safer than walking through certain areas of London.

Those that allow that situation are the ones that should already hold their head in shame. Not the people who question our government and the MSM.

Anybody who is not going to rush out and be vaccinated at the first opportunity will do so because they have made an informed decision not because of what rigsby has said on Shrimperzone.

To suggest that they would, always comes from the same condescending we now best group on here. The ones go out of their way to insult or belittle those that don't agree and demand their posts are removed.

So to those who you who speak to me by other means. It is also your forum and many of you are well ahead when it comes to being a fan rather the part timers who bully you off these sort of threads.

To those that still come on here, then now is the time to say your piece and not suffer in silence.

So are you saying children and footballers actually can get ill COVID? Because in your earlier post you said that it wasn't possible. I'm never quite sure what the point is that you're trying to make, because you'll just change the topic and make it personal... start accusing people of bullying and being condescending etc.

 

[rigsby]

So are you saying children and footballers actually can get ill COVID? Because in your earlier post you said that it wasn't possible. I'm never quite sure what the point is that you're trying to make, because you'll just change the topic and make it personal... start accusing people of bullying and being condescending etc.

Why don't you tell us all why children don't need a vaccine for Covid but do for everything else.

 

[Member]

Why don't you tell us all why children don't need a vaccine for Covid but do for everything else.

I’ll answer that question if you really want me to. But you’ve ignored my question and seem to be diverting the topic again.

 

[GNH]

I'm sort of thinking out loud here (dangerous I know..) but something occured to me over this mutation that I wondered if it could have been cause/effect.

Virus mutation to increase infection is normally a way of it getting around vaccination or to better enable it's spread among its hosts, so here's a question.

Would it be possible that a mutation that makes it far easier to spread was triggered by the way we have responded and had lockdowns globally? Could this have forced it to increase is contagion in response to these factors? We've never done this before as a species so could this be an expected reponse from the virus?

Or am I way off the mark?

 

[Member]

I'm sort of thinking out loud here (dangerous I know..) but something occured to me over this mutation that I wondered if it could have been cause/effect.

Virus mutation to increase infection is normally a way of it getting around vaccination or to better enable it's spread among its hosts, so here's a question.

Would it be possible that a mutation that makes it far easier to spread was triggered by the way we have responded and had lockdowns globally? Could this have forced it to increase is contagion in response to these factors? We've never done this before as a species so could this be an expected reponse from the virus?

Or am I way off the mark?

I'm not a virologist so this is my understanding but I'm not an expert really.

Mutations aren't intelligent, there isn't a 'brain' that is working out how best to adapt itself to survive, instead, the mutations are 'dumb' and are just chance minor changes in the genetic code, and most mutations are just minor/irrelevant, they don't impact on the 'abilities' of the virus.

But occasionally a mutation can occur that gives this new version of the virus an advantage, in terms of survival (this could be how transmittable it is, or how it defends itself against the immune system of the host). Then over time and with a dose of luck, this new virus can replicate and become the dominant strain (because its advantage enables it to overtake what was dominant before).

So with your point about the vaccinations, there isn't a purposeful evolution of the virus to 'get around the vaccination', but instead, the mutations that a vaccine doesn't protect against will very quickly become the dominant strain in the population because they can be transmitted and the original strain can't. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that a mutation will become a dominant strain as long as there continues to be the possibility for onward transmission (e.g. susceptible people who haven't or can't be vaccinated). Different viruses have a different speed at which mutations occur. Measles doesn't really mutate in a fast way so that means that the vaccine continues to be effective for a long time, whereas flu evolves quickly and you need a seasonal vaccine to ensure protection.

This is where the science gets interesting. We've seen a massive increase in cases over the past couple of months in Essex/Kent etc, and it's not been easy to explain this while lockdowns have been in place. But the genetic sequencing that happens on I think 10% of sample of COVID tests has shown a highly prevalent new strain of the virus in specifically these areas (and not so much elsewhere). There are hundreds/thousands of different strains being analysed and tracked (they're like offsprings of parents so you can see them belonging to families), so it's not yet clear if we've just seen this because we're good at looking, or if this is genuinely something to worry about. We've seen an increase in the new B.1.1.7 strain in the SE England location and that's coupled with the massive explosion in cases in the area. That has rightly lead to scientists to hypothesize that this could be a more infectious strain, as it's answer the mystery and seems the most plausible explanation. However they've not yet proven that.

 

[Supershrimper]

Not sure if its been shared on here before but saw this on the news on Monday. Managed to find a clip of it on line now

Covid restrictions 'a right touch'

A man cannot hide his delight as new rules prevent him from seeing his mother-in-law at Christmas.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[londonblue]

My son failed his test. He's negative.

He couldn't even pass that. What a waster.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm not a virologist so this is my understanding but I'm not an expert really.

Mutations aren't intelligent, there isn't a 'brain' that is working out how best to adapt itself to survive, instead, the mutations are 'dumb' and are just chance minor changes in the genetic code, and most mutations are just minor/irrelevant, they don't impact on the 'abilities' of the virus.

But occasionally a mutation can occur that gives this new version of the virus an advantage, in terms of survival (this could be how transmittable it is, or how it defends itself against the immune system of the host). Then over time and with a dose of luck, this new virus can replicate and become the dominant strain (because its advantage enables it to overtake what was dominant before).

So with your point about the vaccinations, there isn't a purposeful evolution of the virus to 'get around the vaccination', but instead, the mutations that a vaccine doesn't protect against will very quickly become the dominant strain in the population because they can be transmitted and the original strain can't. So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that a mutation will become a dominant strain as long as there continues to be the possibility for onward transmission (e.g. susceptible people who haven't or can't be vaccinated). Different viruses have a different speed at which mutations occur. Measles doesn't really mutate in a fast way so that means that the vaccine continues to be effective for a long time, whereas flu evolves quickly and you need a seasonal vaccine to ensure protection.

This is where the science gets interesting. We've seen a massive increase in cases over the past couple of months in Essex/Kent etc, and it's not been easy to explain this while lockdowns have been in place. But the genetic sequencing that happens on I think 10% of sample of COVID tests has shown a highly prevalent new strain of the virus in specifically these areas (and not so much elsewhere). There are hundreds/thousands of different strains being analysed and tracked (they're like offsprings of parents so you can see them belonging to families), so it's not yet clear if we've just seen this because we're good at looking, or if this is genuinely something to worry about. We've seen an increase in the new B.1.1.7 strain in the SE England location and that's coupled with the massive explosion in cases in the area. That has rightly lead to scientists to hypothesize that this could be a more infectious strain, as it's answer the mystery and seems the most plausible explanation. However they've not yet proven that.

an interesting read

 

[OldBlueLady]

Huge extension of tier 4 from 00.01 Boxing Day morning.

 

[ESG]

I assume that the current trading restrictions apply to the dodgy firework traders by The Blinking Owl and Swallows? Not that I'm interested but hopefully keep NYE more peaceful.

 

[GNH]

Not sure if its been shared on here before but saw this on the news on Monday. Managed to find a clip of it on line now

Covid restrictions 'a right touch'

A man cannot hide his delight as new rules prevent him from seeing his mother-in-law at Christmas.

www.bbc.co.uk

That guys is from Thurrock, what an absolute legend, put a smile on my face.

 

[Ricey]

Huge extension of tier 4 from 00.01 Boxing Day morning.

I assume it’s put in place from that point to prevent a massive backlash! If it’s that bad surely it should be from tonight.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

We need a hard lock down to stop this spread. As hard as it may be on people and businesses, nothing seems to be working to control it. This tier system just isn't working, so many shops are open which I'm not sure are essential, with so many people out and about.

"Lockdowns aren't working, so let's have another lockdown!"

You cannot completely stop a virus from spreading. It's what they do, they find ways around. Lockdowns just delay. Chris Whitty said the other day we might never be rid of it. At some point we're going to have to decide to live with this thing.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

I'm sort of thinking out loud here (dangerous I know..) but something occured to me over this mutation that I wondered if it could have been cause/effect.

Virus mutation to increase infection is normally a way of it getting around vaccination or to better enable it's spread among its hosts, so here's a question.

Would it be possible that a mutation that makes it far easier to spread was triggered by the way we have responded and had lockdowns globally? Could this have forced it to increase is contagion in response to these factors? We've never done this before as a species so could this be an expected reponse from the virus?

Or am I way off the mark?

There's actually an article along those lines on the Telegraph website from yesterday, essentially saying lockdowns may have prevented a natural weakening of the disease.

 

[RobM]

If a virus could mutate in response to a vaccine, then Polio wouldn't be all but extinct - any virus would therefore be one step ahead. Or am I misunderstanding things (not impossible!)?

 

[Member]

If a virus could mutate in response to a vaccine, then Polio wouldn't be all but extinct - any virus would therefore be one step ahead. Or am I misunderstanding things (not impossible!)?

Different viruses mutate at very different rates. And see my post above, they don’t mutate in response to a vaccine. It’s just what they do

 

[RobM]

Different viruses mutate at very different rates. And see my post above, they don’t mutate in response to a vaccine. It’s just what they do

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's just luck how they mutate. After all Black Death died out without vaccine, it could have exterminated the whole human population (though it had a good try!).

 

[GNH]

I know i mentioned the vaccine but i was specically refering to the lockdown process.

I think @Pubey said that all mutations are in effect random so looks like it's not plausible. He's far more knowledgeable than me but I'd like to see some sort of study done to really tell. There's no way of telling for sure as we have never tried to deal with something like lockdowns as a species before.

They have more important things to worry about at the moment so all in good time

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

"Lockdowns aren't working, so let's have another lockdown!"

You cannot completely stop a virus from spreading. It's what they do, they find ways around. Lockdowns just delay. Chris Whitty said the other day we might never be rid of it. At some point we're going to have to decide to live with this thing.

Presumably the plan is to delay until the vaccination programme has been rolled out.

There's actually an article along those lines on the Telegraph website from yesterday, essentially saying lockdowns may have prevented a natural weakening of the disease.

Along the same lines lockdowns may have prevented an increase in deadliness in the disease.