Brexit negotiations thread

[dcblue]

Yes any many of them are upping sticks and moving abroad. Genius.

Firms have been moving from here to various parts of Europe since the EU was formed, and many of them with EU grants and cheap loans. Even if we end up staying in the EU firms will still be leaving.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Written by a friend of mine but worth repeating here.....

"Airbus 'could' move jobs out of the UK if it's a hard Brexit. The moon 'could' crash into the planet in the right circumstances.

This from an EU company that is struggling to sell it's costly 380-800 aircraft in a market place and industry it's looking to reduce costs on flights and reducing plane sizes......but that has nothing to do with it......naturally"

And this just sums up the whole sorry state of project fear......

"His remarks were welcomed by Business Minister Richard Harrington, who said Airbus was correct to warn of the dangers of a no-deal scenario.

"Crashing out is a disaster for business," Mr Harrington told a meeting at the German embassy on Thursday morning.

No pressure put to bear there then.


It's all about reading between the lines and not just believing everything put to you because it fits your very blinkered narrative.

"Airbus 'could' move jobs out of the UK if it's a hard Brexit. The moon 'could' crash into the planet in the right circumstances.

David Brent quote?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Not on her own she hasn't. The 75% of remain parliamentarians have all had a hand in derailing brexit. Since the day after the referendum remain mp's have colluded to stay in the EU.

She knew the circumstances of the job she was taking on, she became PM after the referendum and took responsibility for the conditions as they are. Is David Davis a Remainer or Dominic Raab or Boris Johnson? If she is not the one at fault why have all the Brexiteers quit their Brexit related roles?

 

[rigsby]

Firms have been moving from here to various parts of Europe since the EU was formed, and many of them with EU grants and cheap loans. Even if we end up staying in the EU firms will still be leaving.

Not only that, with unmanaged migration we have to find 2,000 new jobs per week.

We have to build a the equivalent of a town the size of Southend and its infrastructure every 6 months. We don't have the stomach for such a task.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not on her own she hasn't. The 75% of remain parliamentarians have all had a hand in derailing brexit. Since the day after the referendum remain mp's have colluded to stay in the EU.

Whose fault is that? She inherited a reasonable working majority from Cameron before calling her snap election in 2017.

 

[dcblue]

A few questions for remainers
1) Why is youth unemployment so high in the EU.
2) Why is Germany approaching recession
3). Will you accept the British youth being conscripted into the EU army.
4). Why have countries like Italy and Greece gone bust.
5). Why do more of the young of the EU come to Britain for work than the other way.
6). What do you understand by the phrases ' transfer of sovereign powers to the EU' and ' political, economic, military, banking and monetary unification'.
7). Why do we pays so much tax to the EU just so they can move jobs and industry out of Britain.

I just cannot understand why anyone would want to become a state in the planned Federal EU.

 

[dcblue]

Whose fault is that? She inherited a reasonable working majority from Cameron before calling her snap election in 2017.

Her campaign was so dismal it suggests to me that she either wanted to lose the election or at the very least lose her majority so that her party would have an excuse when brexit was derailed.
The majority of parliament wants remain, including May, and have worked towards that end since 24th June 2016.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Her campaign was so dismal it suggests to me that she either wanted to lose the election or at the very least lose her majority so that her party would have an excuse when brexit was derailed.
The majority of parliament wants remain, including May, and have worked towards that end since 24th June 2016.

This really takes conspiracy theories to a new level. Wierdest post of the year (so far).

 

[Napster]

A few questions for remainers
1) Why is youth unemployment so high in the EU.
2) Why is Germany approaching recession
3). Will you accept the British youth being conscripted into the EU army.
4). Why have countries like Italy and Greece gone bust.
5). Why do more of the young of the EU come to Britain for work than the other way.
6). What do you understand by the phrases ' transfer of sovereign powers to the EU' and ' political, economic, military, banking and monetary unification'.
7). Why do we pays so much tax to the EU just so they can move jobs and industry out of Britain.

I just cannot understand why anyone would want to become a state in the planned Federal EU.

1) this is the EC's response and what they are doing to counteract
https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1036
2) part of a global slowdown in manufacturing linked to Chinese decrease in consumption probably. But thats not to say recession will happen at all
3) if we were in the EU, we could have vetoed the army
4) They havent
5) Language issues probably
6) quite a bit
7) the EU also provide money to the UK. check out https://www.myeu.uk

anyway, like MK, I'm leaving this discussion, because no-one will ever agree on this topic. And it's got a bit personal from some posters. But just because I'm leaving this topic does not mean anyone's "won". There's no winners here.

Bye.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Her campaign was so dismal it suggests to me that she either wanted to lose the election or at the very least lose her majority so that her party would have an excuse when brexit was derailed.
The majority of parliament wants remain, including May, and have worked towards that end since 24th June 2016.

You think a Prime Minister tries to lose an election but then don't blame them for what follows?

 

[dcblue]

1) this is the EC's response and what they are doing to counteract
https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1036
2) part of a global slowdown in manufacturing linked to Chinese decrease in consumption probably. But thats not to say recession will happen at all
3) if we were in the EU, we could have vetoed the army
4) They havent
5) Language issues probably
6) quite a bit
7) the EU also provide money to the UK. check out https://www.myeu.uk

anyway, like MK, I'm leaving this discussion, because no-one will ever agree on this topic. And it's got a bit personal from some posters. But just because I'm leaving this topic does not mean anyone's "won". There's no winners here.

Bye.

1). These actions are soundbites.
2) Why has Britain not been affected as much.
3). Veto''s will be a thing of the past as per the Lisbon treaty.
4). Are they better off since joining the EU.
5). Maybe, but more likely the lack of work in their native countries.
6). Glad to hear it.
7). Our initial payment minus the money the EU give us back equals a net gain of many billions to the EU every year. Not only that, but the EU tells us where to spend it.

 

[Napster]

1). These actions are soundbites.
2) Why has Britain not been affected as much.
3). Veto''s will be a thing of the past as per the Lisbon treaty.
4). Are they better off since joining the EU.
5). Maybe, but more likely the lack of work in their native countries.
6). Glad to hear it.
7). Our initial payment minus the money the EU give us back equals a net gain of many billions to the EU every year. Not only that, but the EU tells us where to spend it.

Just coming back to make a few final points.

Italy has been part of the EU since 1957. So yes, they have - in fact the immediate post war economy was very favourable for Italy.

Britain has not been affected as much as Germany because we don't have that large a manufacturing base.

Anyway, we would have to agree to disagree on the other points. I'm out again.

 

[GBJ]

Just coming back to make a few final points.

Haha that lasted long, all of 34 minutes

I'm out again.

£10 says you post on this thread again....

 

[Bielzibubz]

I'm absolutely amazed at the willingness of some to just accept the corruption, both political and financial, that can be directly attributed to the EU and for some to say 'oh, we know it's not perfect but it works on some levels' is truly staggering when you actually look at the figures involved.

The latest estimates (Jan 2018) regarding the cost of corruption across the EU put the loss to GDP as a result somewhere between €179 billion and €950 billion each year. (£156 billion - £825 billion sterling)

To put that figure into a global context: it could end world hunger (annual cost: €229 billion); provide basic education to all children in 46 low and middle-income countries (annual cost: €22 billion), help eliminate malaria (annual cost: €4 billion); provide universal safe water and sanitation (annual cost: €129 billion); expand healthcare to gradually provide universal care to all in low and middle-income countries (annual cost: €115 billion); make the necessary yearly investment required to give everyone access to electricity by 2030 (annual cost: €45 billion); and then there would still be around €360 billion left.

That's just the financial loss. Factor in the losses accrued due to the EU's (Euro Group) political and financial interference and corrupt involvement in member states governance and the amount is truly off the scale. I could write a 3000 word essay on why, what, where and when it's been the root cause of many years of pain at both the state and personal level but here is not the forum for that.

And before anyone says 'well, we can't influence reform and change from outside' the EU has proved time and rime again it is incapable of reform. It doesn't want reform. True reform and true democracy would mean handing back the power to each individual member state and its population and that is the exact opposite of all that the EU and its financial institutions stand for.

The sooner the whole sorry house of cards falls the better.

 

[blues exile]

I'm absolutely amazed at the willingness of some to just accept the corruption, both political and financial, that can be directly attributed to the EU and for some to say 'oh, we know it's not perfect but it works on some levels' is truly staggering when you actually look at the figures involved.

The latest estimates (Jan 2018) regarding the cost of corruption across the EU put the loss to GDP as a result somewhere between €179 billion and €950 billion each year. (£156 billion - £825 billion sterling)

To put that figure into a global context: it could end world hunger (annual cost: €229 billion); provide basic education to all children in 46 low and middle-income countries (annual cost: €22 billion), help eliminate malaria (annual cost: €4 billion); provide universal safe water and sanitation (annual cost: €129 billion); expand healthcare to gradually provide universal care to all in low and middle-income countries (annual cost: €115 billion); make the necessary yearly investment required to give everyone access to electricity by 2030 (annual cost: €45 billion); and then there would still be around €360 billion left.

That's just the financial loss. Factor in the losses accrued due to the EU's (Euro Group) political and financial interference and corrupt involvement in member states governance and the amount is truly off the scale. I could write a 3000 word essay on why, what, where and when it's been the root cause of many years of pain at both the state and personal level but here is not the forum for that.

And before anyone says 'well, we can't influence reform and change from outside' the EU has proved time and rime again it is incapable of reform. It doesn't want reform. True reform and true democracy would mean handing back the power to each individual member state and its population and that is the exact opposite of all that the EU and its financial institutions stand for.

The sooner the whole sorry house of cards falls the better.

Much of your post is lifted verbatim from the Greens-efa website and the estimates are very disturbing of course. However, what you don't make clear, and of course, the Greens website does, is that the corruption referred to is within national governments of countries within the EU rather than the bogeymen of the EU itself, those unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Of course that doesn't suit your agenda, but surprise surprise corruption in the heart of national government even features in the UK, for example Boris Johnson's fee for his recent JCB speech and Davies' deal with the same company, who just happen to be the Tories biggest donors as the most obvious recent instances.​

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Much of your post is lifted verbatim from the Greens-efa website and the estimates are very disturbing of course. However, what you don't make clear, and of course, the Greens website does, is that the corruption referred to is within national governments of countries within the EU rather than the bogeymen of the EU itself, those unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Of course that doesn't suit your agenda, but surprise surprise corruption in the heart of national government even features in the UK, for example Boris Johnson's fee for his recent JCB speech and Davies' deal with the same company, who just happen to be the Tories biggest donors as the most obvious recent instances.​

Why is this corrupt?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Haha that lasted long, all of 34 minutes



£10 says you post on this thread again....

I don't mind a bit of income if there is an offer to pay per post...

EU Army. This seems to come up a lot but if we are in the EU we can influence whether it happens or not. Also - would you want a 27 nation army on your doorstep and not be the 28th?
The concept of an EU army sounds like an argument for Remain to me.

 

[blues exile]

Why is this corrupt?

You think it is ok for a senior politician to take this amount of money for a speech and for the donor not to expect something in return. Bamford has already bought himself a peerage, what next?

 

[Benfleet A1]

You think it is ok for a senior politician to take this amount of money for a speech and for the donor not to expect something in return. Bamford has already bought himself a peerage, what next?

Both have declared these interests, morally corrupt, probably, politically corrupt, no it isn't.

 

[blues exile]

Both have declared these interests, morally corrupt, probably, politically corrupt, no it isn't.

JCB don't fund the Tories out of the goodness of their hearts, Essentially it's buying the government.