Brexit negotiations thread

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Boris Johnson is making a self serving big speech tomorrow. Possibly a leadership bid.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Oh it will happen alright. We're not talking a few Thousand angry people this time, we're talking a few Million. This Country is already divided by this shambles. There will be riots over a 2nd referendum if it happens, and then you will get the normal looters and anti everyone jumping on the band waggon. A vote was won and lost. Whoever lost by a small margin was going to say it wasn't fair. You can't have another vote to reverse the result to suit. Democracy is at stake.

According to polls 36 to 40% of voters are currently still prepared to vote for the party who have trashed Brexit so that doesn't point to simmering anger.

 

[rigsby]

According to polls 36 to 40% of voters are currently still prepared to vote for the party who have trashed Brexit so that doesn't point to simmering anger.

Shows how many people really despise Corbyn.

 

[rigsby]

What will happen is the date will be delayed. The EU now actually want this because they have woken up and realised the Tories would have no choice other than no deal and once the rest of Europe sees us carry on without any of the project 'Fear 2' predictions, then the games up for Brussels. Far quicker than even I predicted.

Whilst the likes of momentum are celebrating, Corbyn is slowly being exposed to the younger generation, they wont be signing his name at any festivals this summer. The next GE was never going to be fought by agent May, her work is done. Operation 'they will get bored and remain' has gone badly wrong.....Not just because of May but we only have to look on the news and see the streets of Paris on a Saturday afternoon or worse still the streets of Germany and Sweden on a Saturday night. To realise why people are no longer claiming "We are better off together"

Before at GE is called the Tories will have a new boy to appease the 18m Breixtiers. The vote will be split between the next insipid Liberal remaining leader, Corbyns out but under total control Labour. Or a Boris/Rees-Mogg out means out...….It really will be no contest.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I don't believe it is workable, too little progress over 31 months and too much to do in 2 months. 230 MPs need to change their mind and Parliament has a majority of MPs who will block No Deal. MPs now have the mechanism to take control of the system at the detriment of the government. In the time that is left Remain seems a likely outcome. The EU would delay A50 but only for a real change like a GE or a new ref, not just because May is still stalling.

I'm not blinkered, I vote Remain because I foresaw these wasted years and this mess, I'm not a hard Remainer, for me there are bigger things and they are being ignored.

Your question: UK can cancel A50 unilaterally. To extend it we need agreement from the EU.

I don't see what strife JC is causing. May doesn't have an agreement that the Tories/DUP will agree to, why will talks with JC change that when nothing that he wants matches what she wants. Its purely a distraction because she has backed herself into a corner.

She has failed, its too late for her to instigate the big changes that are needed, she needs to hand over to someone else and ask the EU to delay for that reason.

But my point is, and you don't seem to get this bit. May has said if a deal isn't agreed then we shall leave on 29th March unless the EU grant an extension for her continued negotiation (unlikely)

She has stated that cancelling A50 and remaining in the EU isn't an option.

MP's cannot block a no deal as it's already written into A50 and the date for leaving is set. There is no mechanism for taking control.

Those 'big changes' that you elude to won't come. Those changes, which I assume to mean the one's JC wants, mean basically remain. Unless he's in No10 and doing the negotiating they are simply not going to be forthcoming no matter how much you want them to.

She can't be ousted from office.
She can't get a better deal from the EU.
She can't (daren't) cancel Article 50 and Brexit altogether.
We have an impasse and leave on no deal terms on 29th March.
JC could at least swallow his Marxist pride and join the others at the table.

 

[Bielzibubz]

645,744 new small businesses started up in 2018.

1. Things aren't really all that bad here in the UK
2. These are the backbone of the UK economy, not massive multinationals.
3. Whichever way you look at it those are encouraging figures.

Just a little bit of anti doom and gloom news for you on this cold Friday morning.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

But my point is, and you don't seem to get this bit. May has said if a deal isn't agreed then we shall leave on 29th March unless the EU grant an extension for her continued negotiation (unlikely)

She has stated that cancelling A50 and remaining in the EU isn't an option.

MP's cannot block a no deal as it's already written into A50 and the date for leaving is set. There is no mechanism for taking control.

Those 'big changes' that you elude to won't come. Those changes, which I assume to mean the one's JC wants, mean basically remain. Unless he's in No10 and doing the negotiating they are simply not going to be forthcoming no matter how much you want them to.

She can't be ousted from office.
She can't get a better deal from the EU.
She can't (daren't) cancel Article 50 and Brexit altogether.
We have an impasse and leave on no deal terms on 29th March.
JC could at least swallow his Marxist pride and join the others at the table.

nearly everything May says she then changes.
Among all the amendments that have been flying around has been the green light for Parliament to overrule government.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

645,744 new small businesses started up in 2018.

1. Things aren't really all that bad here in the UK
2. These are the backbone of the UK economy, not massive multinationals.
3. Whichever way you look at it those are encouraging figures.

Just a little bit of anti doom and gloom news for you on this cold Friday morning.

Hear hear! While riots continue in France and Germany's economy is on the brink of recession.

 

[Bielzibubz]

nearly everything May says she then changes.
Among all the amendments that have been flying around has been the green light for Parliament to overrule government.

So your quite happy and actually advocating for a sitting Parliament to overturn the democratic outcome of a vote made by the people are you?

And before you answer bear in mind the EU will not give a better deal than the one already given that will see us actually leave. And by leave I mean actually leave. That is leave the customs union, the free movement of peoples etc etc. You know, those things we leavers actually voted for.

 

[MK Shrimper]

645,744 new small businesses started up in 2018.

1. Things aren't really all that bad here in the UK
2. These are the backbone of the UK economy, not massive multinationals.
3. Whichever way you look at it those are encouraging figures.

Just a little bit of anti doom and gloom news for you on this cold Friday morning.

You know we haven't left yet, right? It'll be interesting how many of those 645744 new small businesses will still be around this time next year.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

According to polls 36 to 40% of voters are currently still prepared to vote for the party who have trashed Brexit so that doesn't point to simmering anger.

I feel like a broken record. The anger will come if a 2nd referendum is announced violating the 1st referendum result. Following on with more riots when remain wins.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I feel like a broken record. The anger will come if a 2nd referendum is announced violating the 1st referendum result. Following on with more riots when remain wins.

This thread goes round and round like a whirlygig and never the twain shall meet.

 

[Bielzibubz]

You know we haven't left yet, right? It'll be interesting how many of those 645744 new small businesses will still be around this time next year.

And you know what. You're a right ole bag of sunshine aren't you. Just be pleased that in a year of turmoil and uncertainty there were well over half a million individuals that had the courage and conviction to try and better themselves. Christ you're a doom merchant you are.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Obviously Corbyn talks to May at least once a week in Westminster and Nicola Sturgeon doesn't have that opportunity, but now she has she has come to the same conclusion as Corbyn;

'So everything is not on the table. PM’s offer of talks is a promise to listen, but only if we all agree with her. SNP won’t be complicit in more time wasting. Rule out no deal, be prepared to extend Art 50 and agree to at least consider another referendum - then we’ll talk.'

 

[GBJ]

Not going to happen, keyboard warriors and a few football thugs, the Defence Secretary has already lined up troups so should easily be dealt with.

I really don’t understand the dismissiveness surrounding this factor.

At best it’s naive, at worst it’s delusional.

As I keep saying, if only 1% of the 17m decide to make their voices heard, with a show of force, then it’ll be very bad. If it’s 10%, it’ll be bedlam.

 

[MK Shrimper]

And you know what. You're a right ole bag of sunshine aren't you. Just be pleased that in a year of turmoil and uncertainty there were well over half a million individuals that had the courage and conviction to try and better themselves. Christ you're a doom merchant you are.

It's a disingenious statistic that just shows one side of the picture. An (almost) equal number of business shut in 2018 as well. Now in 2019/2020 will that statistic be reversed where more close than open? You talk about the financial pain being worth Brexit - I'd imagine this includes a recession? How long would this recession last? How many people will lose their jobs/houses/pensions?

 

[MK Shrimper]

I really don’t understand the dismissiveness surrounding this factor.

At best it’s naive, at worst it’s delusional.

As I keep saying, if only 1% of the 17m decide to make their voices heard, with a show of force, then it’ll be very bad. If it’s 10%, it’ll be bedlam.

You really think that there won't be riots and civil unrest when and if Brexit happens and the cuts begin to bite? As @Lord Football said it'll probably be the same ne'er do wells that will be in the throng, throwing molotovs at the police. A certain section of society will use them to put across their own extremist position, be that extreme-left or extreme-right.

 

[blues exile]

You know we haven't left yet, right? It'll be interesting how many of those 645744 new small businesses will still be around this time next year.

About 10% probably, which is the usual success rate.. I wonder how many are genuine new businesses compared to those individuals who have been forced to go self employed by companies who still want their services but not on their payroll.

 

[Ricky Otto]

You really think that there won't be riots and civil unrest when and if Brexit happens and the cuts begin to bite? As @Lord Football said it'll probably be the same ne'er do wells that will be in the throng, throwing molotovs at the police. A certain section of society will use them to put across their own extremist position, be that extreme-left or extreme-right.

I kind of agree with this, when it all fails and we are all poorer it will just change to "this wasn't the brexit we wanted" and it was sabotaged etc. I'm not sure the outrage will come from as many compared to no brexit. Whoever does involve themselves in unlawful protest should feel the full force of the law.

 

[GBJ]

You really think that there won't be riots and civil unrest when and if Brexit happens and the cuts begin to bite? As @Lord Football said it'll probably be the same ne'er do wells that will be in the throng, throwing molotovs at the police. A certain section of society will use them to put across their own extremist position, be that extreme-left or extreme-right.

It’s very much possible.

Whether it would carry the same ferocity as being denied your democratic right, is however, debatable.