Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I rest my case about nothing being more important to JC than getting to No10, regardless of cost to the UK and it's population. He'll gladly see this country on its knees before he swallows an once of dignity and humility and sits down with his enemy and does the right thing here and now.

And if you take his 5th paragraph of that letter that's basically staying in the EU, that's NOT what was voted for nor what he and his party agreed to when agreeing to A50 being invoked

The man is a ***t and a liability to this country.

What is it that you think he can do to fix the Brexit stalemate?

 

[The Big Dady]

Here you go mattitouk.

 

[rigsby]

I think his outburst was earlier this week, possibly Monday?

Anyway, It’s the same David Lammy who believes that stop & search is racist.

The same David Lammy who was an advocate for the Iraq war, yet was against the Iraq war being investigated.

The same David Lammy who back in 2015 voted in favour of an EU referendum

Guy’s a complete helmet.



Maybe, but even so, It doesn’t paint Corbyn in a good light, especially if the other party leaders show willing & he does not.

I know he can do no wrong in your eyes, but take your Labour blinkers off for a second & try and see how it looks to those of us who aren’t fanatical reds.

To those who distrust/dislike him, it’s another stick to beat him with. To those who are neutral, who’s votes he could potentially court, I fail to see how it could look positive.

To be fair to David Lammy at least he is streets ahead of other MP's in his specialist subject..... Claiming expenses.

 

[Bielzibubz]

What is it that you think he can do to fix the Brexit stalemate?

I don't think he can fix it. He can 'help' fix it though.

Sit down with the Government and at least try to come to some kind of agreement that when put before Parliament can be debated and agreed upon. If taking the 'no deal' option out of any discussions is physically and legally impossible what the hell is he playing about at?

 

[Lord Football]

So, let me get this straight. Under Article 50 and by law we have to leave the EU on the 29th of March unless said Article 50 is revoked and the referendum is overturned, yes?

Now, with that being the case, and I assume that is indeed true, why has JC said it's a pre-condition of any talks with TM that a no deal Brexit be taken off the table? Surely as the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition and with a large legal team at his disposal he would, and does, know this. Now, with that being the case it then begs the question has JC go an ulterior motive for insisting the no deal be removed?

Perhaps he thinks if he pushed far enough she'll resign and the door to No10 becomes a little more ajar.

No. Despite what the EU will say, they will extend A50 if asked. This is ONLY because no one really thought the UK would end up in this position, and the French, Irish and Dutch are not fully prepared for no deal. The EU have already said they will delay if asked. I've heard July and December as dates. This would allow for a new set of negotiations to be opened up.

But if she is refusing to have that conversation as things stand we will leave without a deal on 29 March.

However, I expect Parliament will take control of the situation on Monday effectively making her a sitting duck PM.

 

[Lord Football]

I don't think he can fix it. He can 'help' fix it though.

Sit down with the Government and at least try to come to some kind of agreement that when put before Parliament can be debated and agreed upon. If taking the 'no deal' option out of any discussions is physically and legally impossible what the hell is he playing about at?

thing is..... it isn't.

Taking no deal out of the equation forces HMG to come to an agreement with the EU. Tactically, for a negotiator, it limits you because you don't have the "we'll leave" card to play but for the sanity of the businesses it would remove some of confusion.

I know businesses are literally screaming at Government for leadership, answers and clarity and at the moment the only line is one of "we don't know...."

 

[ms brush]

I don't think he can fix it. He can 'help' fix it though.

Sit down with the Government and at least try to come to some kind of agreement that when put before Parliament can be debated and agreed upon. If taking the 'no deal' option out of any discussions is physically and legally impossible what the hell is he playing about at?

JC wants as much chaos as possible, and despite his insistence that he won't enter discussion if no deal is still a possibility. Reason being, he is basically a Leninist - he wants to incite a revolution, overthrow the current political and economic system and impose an ideological version of communism on the country. He can't do that in the EU, and it would be impossible with a managed exit. The Labour party have reaped the rewards of their policies whilst in power blamed the Tories (who are in as much of a mess) and too many people are believing the hype of nationalizing everything again and redistribution of wealth to the working classes. It isn't the answer, and the prospect is frankly more terrifying than remaining in the EU and ending up as s small backwater in an unelected dictatorship run from Brussels.

The only sensible way forward is to leave by any means possible in March, but call a halt to parliamentary silly season. The no deal brexit is likely to be less damaging to the economy than prolonging the agony and uncertainty for an extended period of time. Like a broken leg or an operation, it will hurt at first, but it will heal better and stronger than before.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don't think he can fix it. He can 'help' fix it though.

Sit down with the Government and at least try to come to some kind of agreement that when put before Parliament can be debated and agreed upon. If taking the 'no deal' option out of any discussions is physically and legally impossible what the hell is he playing about at?

Yesterday she / her top people abused him in Parliament, which is unhelpful considering their imminent request but not the biggest hurdle, and she / her top people went on record ruling out everything they know that Corbyn wants in a deal.
They don't want his input they want to show him refusing their 5 to midnight request just as the carriage becomes a pumpkin, and if he steps into her office they want him to share the blame for her two and a half wasted years.

The public have nothing to gain from extra voices at this late stage, the public need a fresh approach altogether. A GE will provide that either from a Labour government or a different Tory at the negotiating table. May is stuck in a rut and this PR excercise won't change that.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Apparantly May isn't listening or willing to compromise with anyone and anything. Nothing but a PR stunt and JC was right to call her bluff.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Reason being, he is basically a Leninist - he wants to incite a revolution, overthrow the current political and economic system and impose an ideological version of communism on the country[/B].

Some first class paranoia right there.

 

[Bielzibubz]

No. Despite what the EU will say, they will extend A50 if asked. This is ONLY because no one really thought the UK would end up in this position, and the French, Irish and Dutch are not fully prepared for no deal. The EU have already said they will delay if asked. I've heard July and December as dates. This would allow for a new set of negotiations to be opened up.

But if she is refusing to have that conversation as things stand we will leave without a deal on 29 March.

However, I expect Parliament will take control of the situation on Monday effectively making her a sitting duck PM.

What's postponing A50 going to change with regard to the the withdrawal of a no deal Brexit option being impossible to remove as TM has said. Either it is or it isn't. Delay it by 120 days and the no deal option is still there or am I missing something here?

Even if new negotiations were forthcoming, which is unlikely, the details of A50 remain the same. ie the option of a no deal Brexit cannot be removed.

How exactly will Parliament take control exactly?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

JC wants as much chaos as possible, and despite his insistence that he won't enter discussion if no deal is still a possibility. Reason being, he is basically a Leninist - he wants to incite a revolution, overthrow the current political and economic system and impose an ideological version of communism on the country. He can't do that in the EU, and it would be impossible with a managed exit. The Labour party have reaped the rewards of their policies whilst in power blamed the Tories (who are in as much of a mess) and too many people are believing the hype of nationalizing everything again and redistribution of wealth to the working classes. It isn't the answer, and the prospect is frankly more terrifying than remaining in the EU and ending up as s small backwater in an unelected dictatorship run from Brussels.

The only sensible way forward is to leave by any means possible in March, but call a halt to parliamentary silly season. The no deal brexit is likely to be less damaging to the economy than prolonging the agony and uncertainty for an extended period of time. Like a broken leg or an operation, it will hurt at first, but it will heal better and stronger than before.

Revolution! Blimey!

 

[ms brush]

Maybe... have you ever read a history book? The parallels are all there. You just need to go one question deep, and guess what!

The Russian revolution, the great war, WW2, Vietnam, Korea..... all of these had pllar opposite ideologies on thr opposing sides, and none of these started on their own. All grew out of discontent and some level of chaos, until you end up with deadlock, violence and escalation.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

May has 3 days to announce her plan B. If during those 3 days she wants input from other parties then it sounds very much like she doesn't have a plan B.
We all knew her deal was going to fail and she would need to come up with something else. Did she really not know that.
Best thing for her party would be to call a GE and someone in her party has a chance to convince the public they can do things differently. It's that or this slo-mo car crash.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Yesterday she / her top people abused him in Parliament, which is unhelpful considering their imminent request but not the biggest hurdle, and she / her top people went on record ruling out everything they know that Corbyn wants in a deal.
They don't want his input they want to show him refusing their 5 to midnight request just as the carriage becomes a pumpkin, and if he steps into her office they want him to share the blame for her two and a half wasted years.

The public have nothing to gain from extra voices at this late stage, the public need a fresh approach altogether. A GE will provide that either from a Labour government or a different Tory at the negotiating table. May is stuck in a rut and this PR excercise won't change that.

FFS, He's an MP for crying out loud. If abuse from the opposite side of the commons gets to him then I suggest he picked the wrong career. It's theatre, nothing more and should be treated as such. He has stated that if the no del option is removed he would be prepared to sit down and talk and what he wanted in a deal wasn't even a leave option. It was remain in all but name.

A general election at this time is the last thing this country needs. It's clarity, focus and a determined attitude from across the political divide. The opportunity is there now and JC's unwillingness to go even some way to helping to provide that at this late stage is being seen for what it is. A purely political ploy to try and engineer a change at the top when that is in fact the last thing the public want. I would even go so far as to say the longer he plays his game the more it plays into the Tory's hands. His standing amongst the electorate is getting lower and lower by the day (if that's possible)

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Maybe... have you ever read a history book? The parallels are all there. You just need to go one question deep, and guess what!

The Russian revolution, the great war, WW2, Vietnam, Korea..... all of these had pllar opposite ideologies on thr opposing sides, and none of these started on their own. All grew out of discontent and some level of chaos, until you end up with deadlock, violence and escalation.

I have a degree in history but to be honest I was easily distracted!

Austerity and the extremes in wealth distribution would be the perfect setting for an uprising by the general public but us Brits don't really go down that route.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Maybe... have you ever read a history book? The parallels are all there. You just need to go one question deep, and guess what!

The Russian revolution, the great war, WW2, Vietnam, Korea..... all of these had pllar opposite ideologies on thr opposing sides, and none of these started on their own. All grew out of discontent and some level of chaos, until you end up with deadlock, violence and escalation.

Those who've read about the Russian revolution will remember Lenin's comment:":- ""Power is lying on the streets of St Petersburg, just waiting to be picked up.” That's what Lenin and the Bolsheviks did.Personally, I don't see power lying in the streetsof the UK at the present time.Nor do I see Jeremy Corbyn as Lenin.

 

[Bielzibubz]

May has 3 days to announce her plan B. If during those 3 days she wants input from other parties then it sounds very much like she doesn't have a plan B.
We all knew her deal was going to fail and she would need to come up with something else. Did she really not know that.
Best thing for her party would be to call a GE and someone in her party has a chance to convince the public they can do things differently. It's that or this slo-mo car crash.

GE GE GE GE ..... christ, its like an old vinyl with a missing groove.

You know as well as I do that the EU will NOT cut a deal with anyone that would or could be seen as any better than the one TM came away with. They cannot afford to see the UK leave with anything else than a painful deal, if at all. They won't let the UK leave with any kind of deal that makes it any easier than the one they've struck with TM. I don't care who it is, TM, JC, BJ or JRM. None of them would have been able to broker a deal that would be acceptable to the UK Parliament. This is the EU we're talking about for crying out loud. Some people really do need to do a little bit of deep background historical research instead of swallowing what's fed them by the main stream media. The UK leaving will in effect start to ring the death nell for the Euro and the Eurozone just as the potential Greek Grexit was going to do back in 2015 until their Syriza Government backtracked on an sound and agreed debt restructuring program proposal and acceded to the demands of the Troika/Euro Group and accepted the MOU which tied them into decades of more austerity and debt to the EU banks. Still, I digress.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

FFS, He's an MP for crying out loud. If abuse from the opposite side of the commons gets to him then I suggest he picked the wrong career. It's theatre, nothing more and should be treated as such. He has stated that if the no del option is removed he would be prepared to sit down and talk and what he wanted in a deal wasn't even a leave option. It was remain in all but name.

A general election at this time is the last thing this country needs. It's clarity, focus and a determined attitude from across the political divide. The opportunity is there now and JC's unwillingness to go even some way to helping to provide that at this late stage is being seen for what it is. A purely political ploy to try and engineer a change at the top when that is in fact the last thing the public want. I would even go so far as to say the longer he plays his game the more it plays into the Tory's hands. His standing amongst the electorate is getting lower and lower by the day (if that's possible)

I'm not saying the abuse gets to him, he has had it every single day since becoming leader.

I'm saying it shows how serious May is about discussions. Abuse and slander someone in public and an hour later ask them to come round and help with a tricky problem she has created.

No sane person would do that before asking for a genial discussion.

'clarity, focus and a determined attitude' - they are not on offer from this government. May is completely incapable and 13 of her chosen team have left and are sniping from the back benches.
A GE would give the finest Tory talent a chance to regroup and refocus and the EU would accept that as a reason to delay A50.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Those who've read about the Russian revolution will remember Lenin's comment:":- ""Power is lying on the streets of St Petersburg, just waiting to be picked up.” That's what Lenin and the Bolsheviks did.Personally, I don't see power lying in the streetsof the UK at the present time.Nor do I see Jeremy Corbyn as Lenin.

Get your ****ing space bar working will you .......

Now, where was I. Oh yeah. If Brexit doesn't happen then by God you'll see power lying in the streets of the UK.