Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

GE GE GE GE ..... christ, its like an old vinyl with a missing groove.

You know as well as I do that the EU will NOT cut a deal with anyone that would or could be seen as any better than the one TM came away with. They cannot afford to see the UK leave with anything else than a painful deal, if at all. They won't let the UK leave with any kind of deal that makes it any easier than the one they've struck with TM. I don't care who it is, TM, JC, BJ or JRM. None of them would have been able to broker a deal that would be acceptable to the UK Parliament. This is the EU we're talking about for crying out loud. Some people really do need to do a little bit of deep background historical research instead of swallowing what's fed them by the main stream media. The UK leaving will in effect start to ring the death nell for the Euro and the Eurozone just as the potential Greek Grexit was going to do back in 2015 until their Syriza Government backtracked on an sound and agreed debt restructuring program proposal and acceded to the demands of the Troika/Euro Group and accepted the MOU which tied them into decades of more austerity and debt to the EU banks. Still, I digress.

GE increasingly looks like the only way out of the stalemate.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I'm not saying the abuse gets to him, he has had it every single day since becoming leader.

I'm saying it shows how serious May is about discussions. Abuse and slander someone in public and an hour later ask them to come round and help with a tricky problem she has created.

No sane person would do that before asking for a genial discussion.

'clarity, focus and a determined attitude' - they are not on offer from this government. May is completely incapable and 13 of her chosen team have left and are sniping from the back benches.
A GE would give the finest Tory talent a chance to regroup and refocus and the EU would accept that as a reason to delay A50.

Oh come on A S S. It's pure theatre, nothing more and it means diddly squat to. That wasn't abuse. It goes on day after day in the HoC. Means nothing.

Please see my other post with regard to a GE at this time.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Get your ****ing space bar working will you .......

Now, where was I. Oh yeah. If Brexit doesn't happen then by God you'll see power lying in the streets of the UK.

Not going to happen, keyboard warriors and a few football thugs, the Defence Secretary has already lined up troups so should easily be dealt with.

 

[Bielzibubz]

GE increasingly looks like the only way out of the stalemate.

There is no stalemate. If JC doesn't come to the table then we leave on the 29th with no deal.

TM has survived a vote of no confidence so she's going nowhere right now.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Apparantly May isn't listening or willing to compromise with anyone and anything. Nothing but a PR stunt and JC was right to call her bluff.

Surely they could have found that out pretty quickly and exposed it. Hasn't his present lack of judgement just left him open to the accusation that he is playing political games?

 

[Bielzibubz]

Not going to happen, keyboard warriors and a few football thugs, the Defence Secretary has already lined up troups so should easily be dealt with.

You really think that don't you. You have absolutely no idea why people voted to leave and what it means to them do you? You think that if Brexit is overturned those that voted leave will just quietly sit back and shrug their shoulders do you?

I've accused you of being naive before A S S, probably at times wrongly, but this time you seriously, seriously are.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Surely they could have found that out pretty quickly and exposed it. Hasn't his present lack of judgement has just left him open to the accusation that he is playing political games?

And that's the point I made earlier. Whether he is or isn't is immaterial. He's being seen as the petulant little boy that doesn't want to play ball and will do absolutely anything to see his political idealism come to power.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

GE GE GE GE ..... christ, its like an old vinyl with a missing groove.

You know as well as I do that the EU will NOT cut a deal with anyone that would or could be seen as any better than the one TM came away with. They cannot afford to see the UK leave with anything else than a painful deal, if at all. They won't let the UK leave with any kind of deal that makes it any easier than the one they've struck with TM. I don't care who it is, TM, JC, BJ or JRM. None of them would have been able to broker a deal that would be acceptable to the UK Parliament. This is the EU we're talking about for crying out loud. Some people really do need to do a little bit of deep background historical research instead of swallowing what's fed them by the main stream media. The UK leaving will in effect start to ring the death nell for the Euro and the Eurozone just as the potential Greek Grexit was going to do back in 2015 until their Syriza Government backtracked on an sound and agreed debt restructuring program proposal and acceded to the demands of the Troika/Euro Group and accepted the MOU which tied them into decades of more austerity and debt to the EU banks. Still, I digress.

I started off reading your post and totally agreeing with the start. What exactly did you expect from the EU apart from to defend their institution? You obviously didn't believe the lies being fed to the electorate about having our cake and eating it and that a deal would be the easiest thing to arrange? I won't say you then just got silly................I'll just say it has no relevance to the debate. What should you care happens to the EU after the UK leaves?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I am sure I am not alone in worrying for our democracy, and all the further damage that is being caused to Parliament as an institution. Is it possible that there could be an upheaval of the old party lines into one of United in trying for the best for the UK and not following a clarion call or rosette.
This business may see the long awaited cull of 50 constituencies, reform of the Lords, proportional representation of a type etc.
For sure Westminster as it is, is a black comedy farce.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I started off reading your post and totally agreeing with the start. What exactly did you expect from the EU apart from to defend their institution? You obviously didn't believe the lies being fed to the electorate about having our cake and eating it and that a deal would be the easiest thing to arrange? I won't say you then just got silly................I'll just say it has no relevance to the debate. What should you care happens to the EU after the UK leaves?

Granted and apologies, I went off on a bit of a tangent but it's something I'm a bit passionate about. I want Europe to succeed, I really do. I'd dearly love for the UK to be a part of that success. The problem is in its current form, with its current idealogical philosophy and with a system built on collective debt it never can be the success I want it to be and we all know it's incapable of any kind of meaningful reform.

And yes, I wasn't taken in by any of the lies and unobtainable promises spouted in the run up to June 2016, and I'm not the only one on here.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I can't believe the way Corbyn is behaving over this, there will be many Labour MPs whose constituents will have overwhelmingly voted to leave, so why has he sent out an order for them not to enter into discussions? He, like so many, seems to have forgotten that they are representing the people of their constituency, and not their own agendas.

 

[rigsby]

After nearly 5,000 posts nothing will change. Its now obvious that even the remainers on here don't believe in the EU. Neither of course does JC, he just sees it as a chance of power as do his loudest supporters.

The others are still bitter about losing and see another referendum as a chance to prove they were right all along...….Not one of them can give you just 3 things where the EU have improved in the last 30 months. The only good thing is they have ceased their programme of creating a pathway for Turkey to join. That was all down to the Brexit vote, so at least the rest of the Eu can thank us little Englanders for that.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Not going to happen, keyboard warriors and a few football thugs, the Defence Secretary has already lined up troups so should easily be dealt with.

I'm sure there will be many more involved than what you predict.
We are treading on new ground with this one.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

After nearly 5,000 posts nothing will change. Its now obvious that even the remainers on here don't believe in the EU. Neither of course does JC, he just sees it as a chance of power as do his loudest supporters.

The others are still bitter about losing and see another referendum as a chance to prove they were right all along...….Not one of them can give you just 3 things where the EU have improved in the last 30 months. The only good thing is they have ceased their programme of creating a pathway for Turkey to join. That was all down to the Brexit vote, so at least the rest of the Eu can thank us little Englanders for that.

Oh, come on Rigsby! Brexiters just used that as a dishonest tool in the referendum..........talk about fake news. If you want to know the real reason Turkey hasn't got closer to the EU, look no further than the Erdogan regime.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm sure there will be many more involved than what you predict.
We are treading on new ground with this one.

Personally I think people will just be even more bored of Brexit. I can't see a trigger moment just a slow unraveling. I understand the frustration that there was a vote and still nothing to show for it but I don't see it as deliberate just incompetence. I think it will just grind to a halt and people will grumble a bit but ultimately be bored of 3+ years of talking about the same thing.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You really think that don't you. You have absolutely no idea why people voted to leave and what it means to them do you? You think that if Brexit is overturned those that voted leave will just quietly sit back and shrug their shoulders do you?

I've accused you of being naive before A S S, probably at times wrongly, but this time you seriously, seriously are.

I argue regualarly with #FBPE types on Twitter, I'm very aware of why people voted leave and if you scroll back you see I don't attack people for voting leave, I just say it won't happen because leaving has been made unworkable.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I argue regualarly with #FBPE types on Twitter, I'm very aware of why people voted leave and if you scroll back you see I don't attack people for voting leave, I just say it won't happen because leaving has been made unworkable.

But it is workable. We leave, deal or no deal. I know that's not what you want and maybe your in denial but to say it won't happen is a rather blinkered viewpoint.

To quote TM......"but that is an impossible condition because it is not within the Government's power to rule out no deal"

"Let me explain why. Under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union and the Withdrawal Act 2018, we will leave the EU without a deal on 29 March unless Parliament either agrees a deal with the EU or the UK revokes article 50 and chooses to stay in the EU permanently"

Question. Is TM talking horlicks and the Government does have the power to remove Article 50 or is she correct and it can't. Which is it? (and don't say an extension to A50 is key as it changes nothing that's written in the actual Article)

If it's the later then it strikes me its JC that's now causing more strife and uncertainty (on top of what May has caused) because he must have always known it but is using it to play party political games to try and force a GE

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Personally I think people will just be even more bored of Brexit. I can't see a trigger moment just a slow unraveling. I understand the frustration that there was a vote and still nothing to show for it but I don't see it as deliberate just incompetence. I think it will just grind to a halt and people will grumble a bit but ultimately be bored of 3+ years of talking about the same thing.

I hope your right, but believe that years of austerity have made many people of all ages frustrated re their futures, & are simmering to vent their frustrations?.
Whether using Brexit as an outlet I have no idea, but I predict a turbulent year ahead re organised large demonstrations in many areas.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

But it is workable. We leave, deal or no deal. I know that's not what you want and maybe your in denial but to say it won't happen is a rather blinkered viewpoint.

To quote TM......"but that is an impossible condition because it is not within the Government's power to rule out no deal"

"Let me explain why. Under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union and the Withdrawal Act 2018, we will leave the EU without a deal on 29 March unless Parliament either agrees a deal with the EU or the UK revokes article 50 and chooses to stay in the EU permanently"

Question. Is TM talking horlicks and the Government does have the power to remove Article 50 or is she correct and it can't. Which is it? (and don't say an extension to A50 is key as it changes nothing that's written in the actual Article)

If it's the later then it strikes me its JC that's now causing more strife and uncertainty (on top of what May has caused) because he must have always known it but is using it to play party political games to try and force a GE

I don't believe it is workable, too little progress over 31 months and too much to do in 2 months. 230 MPs need to change their mind and Parliament has a majority of MPs who will block No Deal. MPs now have the mechanism to take control of the system at the detriment of the government. In the time that is left Remain seems a likely outcome. The EU would delay A50 but only for a real change like a GE or a new ref, not just because May is still stalling.

I'm not blinkered, I vote Remain because I foresaw these wasted years and this mess, I'm not a hard Remainer, for me there are bigger things and they are being ignored.

Your question: UK can cancel A50 unilaterally. To extend it we need agreement from the EU.

I don't see what strife JC is causing. May doesn't have an agreement that the Tories/DUP will agree to, why will talks with JC change that when nothing that he wants matches what she wants. Its purely a distraction because she has backed herself into a corner.

She has failed, its too late for her to instigate the big changes that are needed, she needs to hand over to someone else and ask the EU to delay for that reason.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Not going to happen, keyboard warriors and a few football thugs, the Defence Secretary has already lined up troups so should easily be dealt with.

Oh it will happen alright. We're not talking a few Thousand angry people this time, we're talking a few Million. This Country is already divided by this shambles. There will be riots over a 2nd referendum if it happens, and then you will get the normal looters and anti everyone jumping on the band waggon. A vote was won and lost. Whoever lost by a small margin was going to say it wasn't fair. You can't have another vote to reverse the result to suit. Democracy is at stake.