Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No, I don’t blame Cameron for tackling a problem head on and offering the people of this country a say. Theresa May also hasn’t ‘made an absolute hash’ of anything, that is - with respect - utter bollocks.

Yes, you want to remain but more people voted to leave and that is what we will and must do. The withdrawal agreement needs some tweaks to the backstop and the balance of what we get in terms of a say in new rules during transition relative to the payments we will still be making to the EU.

That’s it. Then it will be absolutely fine and it’s a heck of an achievement given all those criticising the withdrawal agreement are the very same folks who all along have been saying that any agreement would be completely impossible to achieve!

Did Cameron tackle a problem head on? He presented two options to the public without any consensus of what these options meant in practice. He assumed the outcome and when his assumption turned out to be wrong he quit.

May took 2 and a half years to come up with a deal, she lost 13 members of cabinet because she refused to listen to them then she pulled her deal at the last minute and wasted another month before achieving the worst results for a Parliamentary vote on history.

That's making a hash of it surely?

 

[Ricky Otto]

Check Vince Cable's twitter, all he does is attack Labour.
He wants Labour to come out for a 2nd referendum, the policy that got him 8% of the vote.
He was a major player in a Coalition with the Tories just 3 years ago and he is attacking Labour. Surprised face.

The Tories with the DUP can get any policy they want through Parliament if they can agree among themselves.
'Labour are the problem here and have been all along' - that is satire right?

He wasn't leader in the 2017 GE.

Also I disagree with your opinion that Cable is somehow in with the tories. I remembering it being widely reported that the tories were delighted when he lost his seat as he had been a constant headache to them getting stuff through. I follow his twitter and he attacks both major opposition parties where he sees fit, I for one agree with most of what he says. I'd say the person speaking most sense IMO is a Labour guy though, David Lammy.

 

[GBJ]

Did Cameron tackle a problem head on? He presented two options to the public without any consensus of what these options meant in practice. He assumed the outcome and when his assumption turned out to be wrong he quit.

May took 2 and a half years to come up with a deal, she lost 13 members of cabinet because she refused to listen to them then she pulled her deal at the last minute and wasted another month before achieving the worst results for a Parliamentary vote on history.

That's making a hash of it surely?

It’s all well and good blaming the Tories, by-all-means, fill your boots, the majority of people in the Country aren’t going to argue with you on that.

The focus now needs to be on what comes next. The question is simple, do you think that Jeremy Corbyn being actively involved with discussions with May & the other party leaders is a good thing for the country, or detrimental for the country.

 

[blues exile]

Now you're reaching. Labour have had no input in talks with the EU and the shambles it's been. There is only two people and one party to blame for this problem. David Cameron for kowtowing to the ERG Tory membership, Theresa May for making an absolute hash of 2 1/2 yrs of discussions.

If Cable backtracks and allows a no-deal to happen that will kill the Lib Dems forever as he's been talking about nothing but a 2nd Referendum.

As their collaboration with the Tories proved, the LibDems are a bunch of unprincipled opportunists whose only ambition was to grab a few ministerial positions in a coalition and then have the effrontery to say they were acting in the national interest The electorate showed what they thought of them in 2017 and as true to form, Cable is playing games with this issue. He lost all credibility with his handling of the Royal Mail privatisation fiasco.

 

[blues exile]

It’s all well and good blaming the Tories, by-all-means, fill your boots, the majority of people in the Country aren’t going to argue with you on that.

The focus now needs to be on what comes next. The question is simple, do you think that Jeremy Corbyn being actively involved with discussions with May & the other party leaders is a good thing for the country, or detrimental for the country.

If there were the prospect of genuine discussions fine but if as seems obvious, May is just running down the clock and sticking to her red lines while pretending to be in listening mode. Nothing has changed.

 

[GBJ]

He wasn't leader in the 2017 GE.

Also I disagree with your opinion that Cable is somehow in with the tories. I remembering it being widely reported that the tories were delighted when he lost his seat as he had been a constant headache to them getting stuff through. I follow his twitter and he attacks both major opposition parties where he sees fit, I for one agree with most of what he says. I'd say the person speaking most sense IMO is a Labour guy though, David Lammy.

Lammy is a berk.

2019: David Lammy launches scathing attack on Times journo, for the suggestion that the spate of knife crime across The Capital, is due to absentee parents.

2012: David Lammy says “absent fathers are key cause of knife crime”.

For that example alone, I couldn’t ever take the guy seriously or genuinely

 

[Bielzibubz]

Did Cameron tackle a problem head on? He presented two options to the public without any consensus of what these options meant in practice. He assumed the outcome and when his assumption turned out to be wrong he quit.

May took 2 and a half years to come up with a deal, she lost 13 members of cabinet because she refused to listen to them then she pulled her deal at the last minute and wasted another month before achieving the worst results for a Parliamentary vote on history.

That's making a hash of it surely?

And there you go again. It was May AND the EU that failed to reach a negotiated deal. Negotiations and compromise take two and any failure of said negotiations is down to both parties. You can place the blame at whatever side you like and a that will no doubt be influenced by your political leanings but it's fact.

It was very telling this morning at 6.15am and watching an interview on the BBC outside Parliament with a pro leave Brexit Tory MP and a staunch remain MP from the opposition. When the Tory MP pointed out to camera that in any negotiation you have to be prepared to walk away and also make it known your prepared to walk away and all the remain Labour MP could do was stand there shaking her head from side to side. That just about sums it up really.


Edit: My apologies. It was 6.15am and i didn't realise who the woman was and assumed it was a Labour MP. It was in fact that loony tune Caroline Lucas of the Greens. Ignore the paragraph above. When i'm wrong I say I am :D

 

[Ricky Otto]

As their collaboration with the Tories proved, the LibDems are a bunch of unprincipled opportunists whose only ambition was to grab a few ministerial positions in a coalition and then have the effrontery to say they were acting in the national interest The electorate showed what they thought of them in 2017 and as true to form, Cable is playing games with this issue. He lost all credibility with his handling of the Royal Mail privatisation fiasco.

I think that is unfair as they didn't actually have any real power to implement their election promises and like you rightly say they were punished in the next election. The royal mail sale was unvalued and that is a legitimate criticism of Cable. I don't really like deflection as a tactic, it is used far to often on here so I will reiterate that the royal mail sale is a legitimate criticism. I would say that while labour were in government last they did much worse though, Browns sale of or gold reserves when it bottomed was awful business
Gold price at the Brown Bottom: $275/oz "earning" Gordon $3.48bn

Gold price today $1300/oz. 395 tons now worth $16.4bn.

(the gold price today is from a report one year go so not literally today, don't want to mislead)

 

[MK Shrimper]

Theresa May also hasn’t ‘made an absolute hash’ of anything, that is - with respect - utter bollocks.

Remind me how that vote went on Tuesday?

 

[Ricky Otto]

Lammy is a berk.

2019: David Lammy launches scathing attack on Times journo, for the suggestion that the spate of knife crime across The Capital, is due to absentee parents.

2012: David Lammy says “absent fathers are key cause of knife crime”.

For that example alone, I couldn’t ever take the guy seriously or genuinely

To be fair I don't know his past politics I'm going purely on Brexit, everything I have seen and heard from him has aligned with my opinion

 

[GBJ]

If there were the prospect of genuine discussions fine but if as seems obvious, May is just running down the clock and sticking to her red lines while pretending to be in listening mode. Nothing has changed.

I’m not asking about May, or what she might be doing.

I’m asking about Corbyn.

Is his involvement in the current EU discussions Pivotal or detrimental?

I think that is unfair as they didn't actually have any real power to implement their election promises and like you rightly say they were punished in the next election. The royal mail sale was unvalued and that is a legitimate criticism of Cable. I don't really like deflection as a tactic, it is used far to often on here so I will reiterate that the royal mail sale is a legitimate criticism. I would say that while labour were in government last they did much worse though, Browns sale of or gold reserves when it bottomed was awful business
Gold price at the Brown Bottom: $275/oz "earning" Gordon $3.48bn

Gold price today $1300/oz. 395 tons now worth $16.4bn.

Let’s not forget the Warmongerer

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

As their collaboration with the Tories proved, the LibDems are a bunch of unprincipled opportunists whose only ambition was to grab a few ministerial positions in a coalition and then have the effrontery to say they were acting in the national interest The electorate showed what they thought of them in 2017 and as true to form, Cable is playing games with this issue. He lost all credibility with his handling of the Royal Mail privatisation fiasco.

Ah! You forgot Clegg and student loans!..................or perhaps it's the Tories who use that one? Sure, the Lib Dems made errors during that period of coalition and showed great naivety. Yet I think history will be rather kinder to the Lib Dems, in that difficult period, than your blinkered version of events. To go into coalition with the Tories was a distasteful act for many Lib Dems but wasn't done in an unpricipled opportunistic way. It was decided upon as a responsible decision and done with country in mind, rather than party. Whether it turned out that way in the end is debatable but that's another question.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Remind me how that vote went on Tuesday?

Oh yes, har har har. Trebles all round. PM walking moderate middle ground doesn't win support from hard leavers or hard remainers, while Corbyn stratches his ***, shocker

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It’s all well and good blaming the Tories, by-all-means, fill your boots, the majority of people in the Country aren’t going to argue with you on that.

The focus now needs to be on what comes next. The question is simple, do you think that Jeremy Corbyn being actively involved with discussions with May & the other party leaders is a good thing for the country, or detrimental for the country.

I don't see that opposition parties being involved in discussions with May will change anything, she already knows their positions and disagrees. I think it's a PR exercise.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Oh yes, har har har. Trebles all round. PM walking moderate middle ground doesn't win support from hard leavers or hard remainers, while Corbyn stratches his ***, shocker

It was an historic defeat, not even a slight one which shows she just doesn't listen to anyone.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

It was an historic defeat, not even a slight one which shows she just doesn't listen to anyone.

No, it shows that remainer MPs haven't accepted that they lost the referendum and that leaver MPs have not understood that a sensible managed process, which burns as few bridges as possible as we leave, is the right thing to do. She is the one with the right plan - it just needs adjustments to the backstop and we need a say in rules we take and pay for during transition. That's it. That's a real view backed up by some knowledge - not a regurgitated one having been spoon fed catchy one liners in my cosy Labour echo chamber.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

If only the air of warmth, compromise and understanding shown on here today could be displayed in the HoC, we'd sort this Brexit mess out in a trice!

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

He wasn't leader in the 2017 GE.

Also I disagree with your opinion that Cable is somehow in with the tories. I remembering it being widely reported that the tories were delighted when he lost his seat as he had been a constant headache to them getting stuff through. I follow his twitter and he attacks both major opposition parties where he sees fit, I for one agree with most of what he says. I'd say the person speaking most sense IMO is a Labour guy though, David Lammy.

Pretty much everything Cable tweets about Labour is lies. It's a ridiculous policy as at some point he needs Labour supporting tactical votes. He was Business Secretary in the coalition so a major player and his voting record very pro austerity.

Lammy I warm to, considered voting for him as Mayoral candidate as he is pure London and speaks well. His voting record is hit and miss (obviously his Windrush work is very commendable) and he is too pushy on the new referendum for me when it is something that will probably happen organically and being too forceful will put a fair chunk of people off.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No, it shows that remainer MPs haven't accepted that they lost the referendum and that leaver MPs have not understood that a sensible managed process, which burns as few bridges as possible as we leave, is the right thing to do. She is the one with the right plan - it just needs adjustments to the backstop and we need a say in rules we take and pay for during transition. That's it. That's a real view backed up by some knowledge - not a regurgitated one having been spoon fed catchy one liners in my cosy Labour echo chamber.

Don't all sides of politics have cosy echo chambers?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Don't all sides of politics have cosy echo chambers?

Yes, but MK doesn't sit in all of them and it was him I was talking to