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Brexit negotiations thread

That's what she's banking on, isn't she?

Yes but it's a high risk strategy and I think MK is right-there isn't a majority for no-deal in Parliament.Perhaps we're soon going to be indicative vote land where Parliament will have to decide (ie vote on) which of the various alternatives to the negotiated deal have the most support in the Commons.Remain anybody? :Winking:
 
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lets hope so - he can do what he did for decades - split the Tories and achieve no MPs.

He got us out of the EU and kept Labour out of power and made Cameron dance to his tune. The best man we have had in politics in our life time because he achieved things.

This time it will be Labour voters who flock to him....You are in for one almighty defeat, so don't say I didn't warn you.
 
He got us out of the EU and kept Labour out of power and made Cameron dance to his tune. The best man we have had in politics in our life time because he achieved things.

This time it will be Labour voters who flock to him....You are in for one almighty defeat, so don't say I didn't warn you.
UKIP took more votes from Tories than Labour. That's common knowledge and so your 'kept Labour out of power' tribute is clearly wrong.
 
The no confidence vote in May that should have happened today before May used her veto to block it wouldn't topple the government and ERG could have used it in the scheme to get a new leader.


Utter waste of time. Corbyn's been claiming Labour can step in to govern for sometime now but strangely decides not to go for a non confidence vote in the government which could spark a general election.
You either want to lead or you don't and I get the feeling he prefers being the leader of the party that protests rather than the party who has to make the real decisions.
 
This casual acceptance that policies that tackle inequality are far left is absurded. I'm 47 and I didn't have to pay £9.5k a year to be tutored at Uni - is expecting the same for my kids far left?
When countless privatised industries are failing - trains not running, riots in prisons, army recruitment costs rocketing and recruits falling, water companies dividends soaring, post offices closing, etc etc - why is questioning the viability of that system far left?
Nothing about the 2017 manifesto is far left.
When people look at the policies not the media spin they back them.
A left wing party not getting into government 36 years ago should not be a benchmark for what is achievable in 2019.

There is no guarantee that a 2019 GE will lead to a Labour government or that a new referendum will lead to a Remain vote but currently we have a government too scared to present policy to Parliament and no consensus on how to move forward with our EU relationship which expires in 3 months. A reboot is needed as we can't carry on with stagnation.

117 Tory MPs voted that they had no confidence in May last week. To present that option to Parliament is a test for a no confidence vote in the government. The test has seen results - Reed-Mogg who was the main instigator in the Tory vote against May has now said he will back her. This is valuable information. Also no 10 have said they will not allow time for the vote in Parliament. That is another message to the public - the Tories are yet again showing a total disregard for Parliament. It's more straw on the camel's back.

Look, I won't personally be too disappointed at the prospect of a Labour government. Quite honestly, what frightens me a lot more is another five years of these present incompetent morons. You can disclaim the importance of opinion polls but for me it would be worrying, given the incompetence of the present bunch, not to have a huge lead at this moment in time. Yet there are concerns not just for the policies but the whole ambiance of the party and control within. There appear to be a number of members and MP's who feel less content than you with the present set up. Maybe you will explain that away as normal disagreements within a family or stories exaggerated by a hostile media?
Everything in your first paragraph seems very reasonable on face value and there's nothing much most people would disagee with. Everyone wants improved services and I think you would find a majority in favour of more equality. The problem I may have with you is how we try and achieve these aims, or at least make a start towards addressing the mistakes and failings of previous administrations. I would prefer a pragmatic rather than an ideological approach to these problems...........after all it was an ideological dogma that got us into this mess in the first place.
Living in a country which offers further education without charges I would accept your first point (I had an unrepayable student grant in the seventies :Smile:) Apart from that it is questioable whether the system even works, considering the amount of likely unpaid loans. Privatisation of the railways was a disaster...........and it certainly wasn't the only one. Yet we are where we are and each privatisation would need to be considered in economic terms, to find out whether re-nationalisation is a practical solution. Yes, everyone wants improvements in services but that can only be achieved with a successful economy .....can we afford to allow borrowing spin out of control?
Isn't Rees-Mogg supporting May more out of the hope and expectation that May will (perhaps inadvertently) take us out of the EU without a deal.............he may support her but he certainly doesn't support her deal. The Tories had the right to vote for or against their leader. It was never going to be a vote that was offered to parliament, so in the end it was, at the least, rather futile.
 
Utter waste of time. Corbyn's been claiming Labour can step in to govern for sometime now but strangely decides not to go for a non confidence vote in the government which could spark a general election.
You either want to lead or you don't and I get the feeling he prefers being the leader of the party that protests rather than the party who has to make the real decisions.
Not at all. DUP won't vote against the government until the vote on May's deal and Labour have said that is when they will go with a no confidence in the government vote.
Yesterday's was meant to give her a kick up the arse in bringing her deal to Parliament as pretty much the whole House were airing frustrations at her constant delaying tactics.
 
Already happened in 2017. I expect after wasting 2 years on not delivering Brexit the Leave Tory voters will not bother voting for anyone in 2019.

May won't be fighting the next GE whenever that might be. I wouldn't be so sure on all those Kippers just letting Uncle Jeremy waltz his way to power. The next tory leader is likely to be much more to their taste.
 
Not at all. DUP won't vote against the government until the vote on May's deal and Labour have said that is when they will go with a no confidence in the government vote.
Yesterday's was meant to give her a kick up the arse in bringing her deal to Parliament as pretty much the whole House were airing frustrations at her constant delaying tactics.

Could easily turn those words into frustrations about Corbyn, the SNP leader has pretty much said as much.
 
May won't be fighting the next GE whenever that might be. I wouldn't be so sure on all those Kippers just letting Uncle Jeremy waltz his way to power. The next tory leader is likely to be much more to their taste.
At next GE Brexit will either have been delivered in some form, cancelled, or a new vote on the cards. Whichever of these is the situation will dictate what Kippers do.
 
Could easily turn those words into frustrations about Corbyn, the SNP leader has pretty much said as much.
SNP are impatient, we all are, but there is no point in a no confidence vote in the government that is badly timed.
Comparing frustration at the PM for not bringing plan A to Parliament until 2 months before leaving EU date at the earliest, and frustration at the Opposition not yet calling a full no confidence vote is incomparable.
 
This PM is on her knees, this government is on it's knees. She has over a third of her own MP's against her and she can't get toffee from the leaders over the channel.
And still the opposition leader plays the fiddle. Which ever way you want to dress it up it is being seen as weakness.
 
Look, I won't personally be too disappointed at the prospect of a Labour government. Quite honestly, what frightens me a lot more is another five years of these present incompetent morons. You can disclaim the importance of opinion polls but for me it would be worrying, given the incompetence of the present bunch, not to have a huge lead at this moment in time. Yet there are concerns not just for the policies but the whole ambiance of the party and control within. There appear to be a number of members and MP's who feel less content than you with the present set up. Maybe you will explain that away as normal disagreements within a family or stories exaggerated by a hostile media?
Everything in your first paragraph seems very reasonable on face value and there's nothing much most people would disagee with. Everyone wants improved services and I think you would find a majority in favour of more equality. The problem I may have with you is how we try and achieve these aims, or at least make a start towards addressing the mistakes and failings of previous administrations. I would prefer a pragmatic rather than an ideological approach to these problems...........after all it was an ideological dogma that got us into this mess in the first place.
Living in a country which offers further education without charges I would accept your first point (I had an unrepayable student grant in the seventies :Smile:) Apart from that it is questioable whether the system even works, considering the amount of likely unpaid loans. Privatisation of the railways was a disaster...........and it certainly wasn't the only one. Yet we are where we are and each privatisation would need to be considered in economic terms, to find out whether re-nationalisation is a practical solution. Yes, everyone wants improvements in services but that can only be achieved with a successful economy .....can we afford to allow borrowing spin out of control?
Isn't Rees-Mogg supporting May more out of the hope and expectation that May will (perhaps inadvertently) take us out of the EU without a deal.............he may support her but he certainly doesn't support her deal. The Tories had the right to vote for or against their leader. It was never going to be a vote that was offered to parliament, so in the end it was, at the least, rather futile.
Bullet points as that was long!

- some MPs / members not behind the current set up. Inevitable. Membership is more than double what it was 2 years ago so you lose some and win lots more, sounds like a good result. MPs - there are some coming from a different start point that are a valuable asset Kier Starmer for eg and some that really are from a different age - Kate Hoey for e.g. It is what it is.
- Polls. Labour made up 20 polling % between April and June last year. Only poll that matters is an election
- I am reasonable and so is the policy
- renationalisation can be done in a pragmatic way. Train franchisees get renewed as they expire. As it stands we bail out the non profit making lines and don't share the profits of the others.
- Water companies pay out large dividends, that can come back into the public coffers. No private company came up with the idea of water, it should belong to all of us
- Tuition fees is madness. £12bn dumped on the national debt this week and 6% interest being charged on it. Tory incompetence at its most base.
- National debt has more than doubled in 8 Tory years. In they time they have borrowed more than all Labour governments added together. Spending spiralling is a reason to get rid of the Tories not to keep them.
- Rees-Mogg - he very much wanted rid of her last week so who knows what he is playing at.
- Futile vote. Have you seen PMQs? Two hours of futility trying to get the PM to answer a Q. Why not with a futile vote? It highlights her further Brexit delays and in her not allowing time in Parliament to hold the vote against her it highlights her Henry VIII style of politics. I'd say those two things have value.
 
This PM is on her knees, this government is on it's knees. She has over a third of her own MP's against her and she can't get toffee from the leaders over the channel.
And still the opposition leader plays the fiddle. Which ever way you want to dress it up it is being seen as weakness.
I don't know how many times it needs to be said. They bought the DUP with taxpayers money. DUP are broadly staying with the Tories until her deal is voted on. So we all have to wait for that.

May is causing the delays. Convention states we should not stil be waiting and after losing 3 votes and being found in contempt of Parliament this government should have quit. But they are turning their back on convention, tradition and decency.

All we can do is not vote Tory next time. Pretty powerless other than that till DUP tip.
 

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