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Brexit negotiations thread

Forums New posts
Bielzibubz said:
More or less reiterates what I've been saying for months on here to Barna and others. His brand of pure Socialism is dead as a potent force for opposition. It's been dead since the bad old days of the mid 70's. Tony Bliars form of New Labour won in the way it did because it was just a broader appealing form of left of centre Tory capitalism.

Lets also not forget that JC comes with an awful lot of past baggage he'd rather people forgot, and he's not the first amongst the Labour far left with things in their past that the party would rather didn't come to light.
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On the contrary, he has an entirely honourable and consistent record of being true to his principles and on the right side of history. To categorise him as 'far left' is frankly utterly risible. He is a model democratic socialist typical of mainstream European politicians. As for going back to the seventies, those who remember them would recall they were relatively much better off then, public services were properly funded and young people could get on the housing ladder, all before the baleful advent of Thatcherism and the social evils it precipitated.
 
rigsby said:
I don’t care, we won’t be in it.

Just like the Euro it will prove to be a disaster for some countries and will just be another hole in the sinking ship.

70 % of Labour constituencies agree with me. If Corby. Wants to play his violin on deck as the the ship goes down then good luck to him
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Can you post a link to 70% of Labour constuencies stating they don't care if there is an EU army please.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
Can you post a link to 70% of Labour constuencies stating they don't care if there is an EU army please.
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I don’t know personally how true any of the numbers are, as ultimately that would require running our own full analysis of the detailed results by constituency. I have found a site that ‘claims’ to do this, and it might be legit but I haven’t had time just now to check on that either. Right, that’s me caveats out of the way, now here’s a link (for what it’s worth!):

EU exit votes - proportion by constituency voting for each of the two main parties at the last election
 
rigsby said:
I don't vote tory so why would I care about TM, she's your obsession.

The moment a remainer was put up as the fall girl some of us knew what was coming. The needless and manufactured GE convinced a few more and now we have project "Its just not possible" to end any doubt.

All this nonsense has encouraged the democracy deniers to emerge from under their rocks. I notice the zones "peoples vote" has gone a bit quiet. Even with people like me who didn't vote its not what you were hoping.....Is it?

Still going to black up and try and stop the Brexit march on Sunday?
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Did you vote in the referendum?
 
I really don't know how far left the Labour Party's policies can be considered to be. It is certainly the perception that the Labour Party has now vacated the centre ground................and perceptions are very important. I'd be a fool, in the present political climate, to guess the result of the next General Election, yet I still believe, for the reasons mentioned above, that the Labour Party face a difficult task to achieve a workable majority without support from the middle ground. The last time I remember Labour heading towards a General Election with similarly perceived left-wing policies was back in 1983................I don't remember it going that well.
Look, I'm happy that Another Surrey Shrimper, Barna and Blues Exile all feel confortable having 'got their Labour Party back.' I just very much fear the consequences will be a continuing period of rule for the present incompetents. I do have a good deal of sympathy for the criticisms of Liberal capitalism, yet that is the system in which we are obliged to work. It could all come crashing down due to its greed and severe inequalities..............however it's one thing to destroy a system that works (albeit not for the majority of its citizens and very much worse since the crash)..........it's rather more difficult to find a workable system which would replace it.
Back more to the point I saw yesterday that Corbyn marched his troops half way up the hill and then marched them down again! I understand that the numbers were not there for a vote of confidence but why on earth did he not just keep his mouth shut and his powder dry? The attempted vote of confidence in May herself was a rather pathetic action, with no chance of success and of little point. It has made him look a bit silly and gives the appearance that May rather out-manoeuvred him........ which is quite an achievement in itself!
 
yogi bear up the cagire said:
I really don't know how far left the Labour Party's policies can be considered to be. It is certainly the perception that the Labour Party has now vacated the centre ground................and perceptions are very important. I'd be a fool, in the present political climate, to guess the result of the next General Election, yet I still believe, for the reasons mentioned above, that the Labour Party face a difficult task to achieve a workable majority without support from the middle ground. The last time I remember Labour heading towards a General Election with similarly perceived left-wing policies was back in 1983................I don't remember it going that well.
Look, I'm happy that Another Surrey Shrimper, Barna and Blues Exile all feel confortable having 'got their Labour Party back.' I just very much fear the consequences will be a continuing period of rule for the present incompetents. I do have a good deal of sympathy for the criticisms of Liberal capitalism, yet that is the system in which we are obliged to work. It could all come crashing down due to its greed and severe inequalities..............however it's one thing to destroy a system that works (albeit not for the majority of its citizens and very much worse since the crash)..........it's rather more difficult to find a workable system which would replace it.
Back more to the point I saw yesterday that Corbyn marched his troops half way up the hill and then marched them down again! I understand that the numbers were not there for a vote of confidence but why on earth did he not just keep his mouth shut and his powder dry? The attempted vote of confidence in May herself was a rather pathetic action, with no chance of success and of little point. It has made him look a bit silly and gives the appearance that May rather out-manoeuvred him........ which is quite an achievement in itself!
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This casual acceptance that policies that tackle inequality are far left is absurded. I'm 47 and I didn't have to pay £9.5k a year to be tutored at Uni - is expecting the same for my kids far left?
When countless privatised industries are failing - trains not running, riots in prisons, army recruitment costs rocketing and recruits falling, water companies dividends soaring, post offices closing, etc etc - why is questioning the viability of that system far left?
Nothing about the 2017 manifesto is far left.
When people look at the policies not the media spin they back them.
A left wing party not getting into government 36 years ago should not be a benchmark for what is achievable in 2019.

There is no guarantee that a 2019 GE will lead to a Labour government or that a new referendum will lead to a Remain vote but currently we have a government too scared to present policy to Parliament and no consensus on how to move forward with our EU relationship which expires in 3 months. A reboot is needed as we can't carry on with stagnation.

117 Tory MPs voted that they had no confidence in May last week. To present that option to Parliament is a test for a no confidence vote in the government. The test has seen results - Reed-Mogg who was the main instigator in the Tory vote against May has now said he will back her. This is valuable information. Also no 10 have said they will not allow time for the vote in Parliament. That is another message to the public - the Tories are yet again showing a total disregard for Parliament. It's more straw on the camel's back.
 
there is no way she will be the prime minster who takes us out with no deal - no her, she's a fully paid up member of the remain group and there lies her issue which for some reason she WILL not see.
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
I do so hope you're right.Almost any scenario would be better than no deal IMO,including her deal. :Scared:
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From day one, no deal was always the best option. Not that any of the remain MP's wanted that but by being so week and with traitors backing the EU it is now the only option.

What they will do is delay the date and carry on with project "We tried our best but we just cant leave"

The real panic in Westminster is yet to come. When Farage starts a Brexit means Brexit party they will try and rush a GE before it gains momentum
 
rigsby said:
From day one, no deal was always the best option. Not that any of the remain MP's wanted that but by being so week and with traitors backing the EU it is now the only option.

What they will do is delay the date and carry on with project "We tried our best but we just cant leave"

The real panic in Westminster is yet to come. When Farage starts a Brexit means Brexit party they will try and rush a GE before it gains momentum
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lets hope so - he can do what he did for decades - split the Tories and achieve no MPs.
 
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