Brexit negotiations thread

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

How yesterdays vote has affected the betting:

HOC 2018 Brexit Vote:-

To Pass 10/1 yesterday 14/1 today

Not to Pass 1/33 yesterday 1/66 today

To leave by 29th March:-

No 4/6 yesterday 1/2 today

Yes 11/10 yesterday 6/4 today

Another EU Referendum before 2020:-

No 8/11 yesterday 4/7 today

Yes 1/1 yesterday 5/4 today

So the money is saying the deal is even less likely to get through the HOC, we are less likely to leave by 29th March but another referendum is less likely. Make of that what you will

That's because she went back to the EU with her begging bowl and got nothing and was humiliated. Also, she seems to have upset Mr Juncker of all people, one she badly needs to persuade. She accused him of calling her nebulous, she was adamant he did. He said he didn't, and even went and checked what he said. This is what he said....."So we would like within a few weeks our UK friends to set out their expectations for us because this debate is sometimes nebulous and imprecise and I would like clarifications." She really should check out what he said before going and having a go at him as clearly shown on the news. It's one thing after another at the moment.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's because she went back to the EU with her begging bowl and got nothing and was humiliated. Also, she seems to have upset Mr Juncker of all people, one she badly needs to persuade. She accused him of calling her nebulous, she was adamant he did. He said he didn't, and even went and checked what he said. This is what he said....."So we would like within a few weeks our UK friends to set out their expectations for us because this debate is sometimes nebulous and imprecise and I would like clarifications." She really should check out what he said before going and having a go at him as clearly shown on the news. It's one thing after another at the moment.

I don’t blame you for saying that TSNB, but No! No she didn’t! He gave an interview to Spanish media using a word that was misinterpreted and then ALSO taken out of context in the British media. He was talking about the state of the parliamentary debate. Theresa May didn’t accuse him - British media did and have been bashing Theresa May for it all day. She was quite rightly angry having read the media and confronted Juncker. He was horrified, apologised and immediately clarified that the British media got it wrong. He was talking about the haters of the deal in the British Parliament - Tories, Labour and the SNP, not Theresa May.

To add insult to injury, the atrocious BBC is reporting what you have just posted - that Theresa May ‘accused’ Juncker of calling her nebulous!! No!!! They did - the BBC, Guardian and others! It makes my blood boil just how duplicitous and conniving these media spivs are. They truly are the enemy within.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

I don’t blame you for saying that TSNB, but No! No she didn’t! He gave an interview to Spanish media using a word that was misinterpreted and then ALSO taken out of context in the British media. He was talking about the state of the parliamentary debate. Theresa May didn’t accuse him - British media did and have been bashing Theresa May for it all day. She was quite rightly angry having read the media and confronted Juncker. He was horrified, apologised and immediately clarified that the British media got it wrong. He was talking about the haters of the deal in the British Parliament - Tories, Labour and the SNP, not Theresa May.

To add insult to injury, the atrocious BBC is reporting what you have just posted - that Theresa May ‘accused’ Juncker of calling her nebulous!! No!!! They did - the BBC, Guardian and others! It makes my blood boil just how duplicitous and conniving these media spivs are. They truly are the enemy within.

Here is how TM and Mr Juncker see it.
According to lip-readers, the Prime Minister said: "What did you call me? You called me nebulous. Yes you did."

Mr Juncker then replied: "No I didn't, I didn't."

Asked about the clash at a lunchtime press conference, Mrs May said: "I had a robust discussion with Jean-Claude Juncker I think that is the sort of discussion you are able to have when you have developed a working relationship and you work well together.

"What came out of that was his clarity was that he had been talking - when he used that particular phrase - he had been talking about a general level of debate."

In a later press conference, Mr Juncker also addressed the exchange, saying: “I think at the very first moment ... she thought that I did criticise her by saying yesterday night that the British position was nebulous.

“I didn’t know that this word exists in English ... I did not refer to her, but to the overall state of the debate in Britain.

“As I told you earlier I was following the debate in the House and I can’t see where the British parliament is heading at, and that’s why I was saying that this was nebulous, foggy, in England.

“I was not addressing her, and in the course of the morning after checking what I’d said yesterday night, she was kissing me.”

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Here is how TM and Mr Juncker see it.
According to lip-readers, the Prime Minister said: "What did you call me? You called me nebulous. Yes you did."

Mr Juncker then replied: "No I didn't, I didn't."

Asked about the clash at a lunchtime press conference, Mrs May said: "I had a robust discussion with Jean-Claude Juncker I think that is the sort of discussion you are able to have when you have developed a working relationship and you work well together.

"What came out of that was his clarity was that he had been talking - when he used that particular phrase - he had been talking about a general level of debate."

In a later press conference, Mr Juncker also addressed the exchange, saying: “I think at the very first moment ... she thought that I did criticise her by saying yesterday night that the British position was nebulous.

“I didn’t know that this word exists in English ... I did not refer to her, but to the overall state of the debate in Britain.

“As I told you earlier I was following the debate in the House and I can’t see where the British parliament is heading at, and that’s why I was saying that this was nebulous, foggy, in England.

“I was not addressing her, and in the course of the morning after checking what I’d said yesterday night, she was kissing me.”

Yep - all totally fair as a representation of what happened. It just omits the bit before Theresa spoke to JCY. That bit, the crucial bit (while we are getting bogged down with who said what to whom) is as I mentioned in my previous post. A **** up and misrepresentation in the British media - not JCY-caused or TM-accusing. British media being a **** shower today, morning noon and night.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Is this on a "deal" rather than no deal?

Yes.atm,it's not due too take place until after 2020 (due to start in 2021) but if there's no deal presumably all bets are off.

In the same way, that last week, according to the local weekly magazine in SC, expats have been asked to register for the European and local elections here in May 2019,whereas in an El Pais article the other day,expats legally resident in Spain were told that they wouldn't be eligble to vote in next May's elections, even if they were already registered to vote,if the UK pulls out of the EU without a deal on 29/03/2019.Go figure!

 

[The Big Dady]

Prime Ministers Question Time in The House of Commons, not sure if this is the government or the opposition benches.

Personally I think it is an Insult to Chimpanzees.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46569699


Has there ever been anyone more in denial than May? I don't understand what outcome she expects from running the clock down waiting for breakthroughs that have nothing to indicate they are a possibility.

 

[blues exile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46569699


Has there ever been anyone more in denial than May? I don't understand what outcome she expects from running the clock down waiting for breakthroughs that have nothing to indicate they are a possibility.

Her sole strategy, if you can dignify it by using that term, has been to waffle, obfuscate and frustrate the EU by failing to make it clear exactly what she wants, thereby forever postponing the day of reckoning. She is doing the same in HOC, forever ensuring, to use her favourite word, that the decision will be put off as long as possible, thus leaving no time for anyone else to sort out an alternative, unless Article 50 is either revoked or extended. Her personal survival as leader of the Tories appears to be her only aim and where all her energies are directed. In the meantime the growing problems the UK faces caused by years of Tory austerity multiply and are exacerbated by the total shambles of Brexit. The view from Europe ranges from utter disbelief to open ridicule that the British government could be so incompetent as to put the UK in this position with time rapidly running out.

 

[Swiss Tony]

Here is how TM and Mr Juncker see it.
According to lip-readers, the Prime Minister said: "What did you call me? You called me nebulous. Yes you did."

Mr Juncker then replied: "No I didn't, I didn't."

Asked about the clash at a lunchtime press conference, Mrs May said: "I had a robust discussion with Jean-Claude Juncker I think that is the sort of discussion you are able to have when you have developed a working relationship and you work well together.

"What came out of that was his clarity was that he had been talking - when he used that particular phrase - he had been talking about a general level of debate."

In a later press conference, Mr Juncker also addressed the exchange, saying: “I think at the very first moment ... she thought that I did criticise her by saying yesterday night that the British position was nebulous.

“I didn’t know that this word exists in English ... I did not refer to her, but to the overall state of the debate in Britain.

“As I told you earlier I was following the debate in the House and I can’t see where the British parliament is heading at, and that’s why I was saying that this was nebulous, foggy, in England.

“I was not addressing her, and in the course of the morning after checking what I’d said yesterday night, she was kissing me.”

Looks like he was slipping the tongue in on a few women yesterday the dirty old *******, a swift knee in the right area would do the geriatric ****head and women kind the world of good.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46569699


Has there ever been anyone more in denial than May? I don't understand what outcome she expects from running the clock down waiting for breakthroughs that have nothing to indicate they are a possibility.

Her strategy seems to be to run down the clock until there is utter panic and the only options are her deal or no deal, forcing us to accept her useless deal. She went back to the EU again this week and got absolutely nothing. The Tories need to do something drastic as this deal will not get through Parliament, despite her best efforts. She's now relying on assurances over the backstop from the EU, but these don't hold much weight as assurances and promises are not legal in this case and can be broken, especially by people that want to keep us in. I liked the analogy of her deal when someone called it the Hotel California...You can check out but you can never leave.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46577359

That clock is still ticking and is obviously being run down deliberately. Could there be another referendum after all,as NF seems to think?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

It's not because I have any pathological dislike for Labour that I post the comment below. Indeed, I should feel far more confortable with the prospect of a Labour government than the present awful and incompetent shower. Yet, I don't have faith in the opposition and that is no more clearly exemplified than by their approach to Brexit. If the article below had been written by a journalist from the Express, Mail, Telegraph or Times, one would see it as par for the course and move on. The only trouble is that it was written by Andrew Rawnsley and if the Observer/Guardian can't be classed as 'Labour leaning' ...........who can? In fact the whole article when refering to Labour, is even more damning than the piece I quote.

"There may be all sorts of complicated explanations for Labour’s failure, but I think the root cause is pretty simple. The party’s leadership has been rumbled. Labour’s own version of fantasy Brexit has been to pretend that it could negotiate a deal that gave Britain all the benefits of EU membership from the outside. The voters aren’t buying this bogus prospectus. Despite it all, the public trusts Mr Corbyn with Brexit even less than it trusts Mrs May. People can see that the Labour leadership obsesses about Brexit process questions because it doesn’t want to grip the issues of principle. The endless ducking and diving about when they might call a no-confidence vote against the government makes Labour look like opportunists desperately hoping to luck into office on the back of Brexit turmoil rather than a party with the national interest at heart. You can’t keep demanding that the Tories “make way” for Labour, the daily mantra of Mr Corbyn and his drones, and then never trigger the only mechanism for making that happen. At the heart of it is Labour’s continuing refusal to come clean about whether it will or will not support another referendum. What has always smelled of unprincipled tactical prevarication now reeks of a refusal to be honest with the electorate."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...es-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss

 

[MK Shrimper]

I've said it before Yogi, Tory & Labour remainers need to come together with the Lib Dems, SNP & Greens as a cross-party group to get us out of this mess.

 

[blues exile]

She has always put the interests of herself and the Tory party first and then has the gall to accuse Labour of playing party politics. The survival of her rotten government has always been her priority.

It's not because I have any pathological dislike for Labour that I post the comment below. Indeed, I should feel far more confortable with the prospect of a Labour government than the present awful and incompetent shower. Yet, I don't have faith in the opposition and that is no more clearly exemplified than by their approach to Brexit. If the article below had been written by a journalist from the Express, Mail, Telegraph or Times, one would see it as par for the course and move on. The only trouble is that it was written by Andrew Rawnsley and if the Observer/Guardian can't be classed as 'Labour leaning' ...........who can? In fact the whole article when refering to Labour, is even more damning than the piece I quote.

"There may be all sorts of complicated explanations for Labour’s failure, but I think the root cause is pretty simple. The party’s leadership has been rumbled. Labour’s own version of fantasy Brexit has been to pretend that it could negotiate a deal that gave Britain all the benefits of EU membership from the outside. The voters aren’t buying this bogus prospectus. Despite it all, the public trusts Mr Corbyn with Brexit even less than it trusts Mrs May. People can see that the Labour leadership obsesses about Brexit process questions because it doesn’t want to grip the issues of principle. The endless ducking and diving about when they might call a no-confidence vote against the government makes Labour look like opportunists desperately hoping to luck into office on the back of Brexit turmoil rather than a party with the national interest at heart. You can’t keep demanding that the Tories “make way” for Labour, the daily mantra of Mr Corbyn and his drones, and then never trigger the only mechanism for making that happen. At the heart of it is Labour’s continuing refusal to come clean about whether it will or will not support another referendum. What has always smelled of unprincipled tactical prevarication now reeks of a refusal to be honest with the electorate."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...es-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss

Rawnsley is an arch Blairite who never misses an opportunity to bash Corbyn no matter what the subject of his article. As such his views in this diatribe are merely the words of his master, carefully orchestrated to chime with Blair's unhelpful and unwanted intrusion into the debate in recent days.

 

[rigsby]

How many Labour MPs have constituencies that voted leave...I’m told its 70%.

Your absolutely righ Yogi. If ever there was a time that Corbyn needs to back his own core believes it has been Brexit.

His failure will be up there with same results ‘Sir’ Nick Clegg had for the Liberals.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

She has always put the interests of herself and the Tory party first and then has the gall to accuse Labour of playing party politics. The survival of her rotten government has always been her priority.


Rawnsley is an arch Blairite who never misses an opportunity to bash Corbyn no matter what the subject of his article. As such his views in this diatribe are merely the words of his master, carefully orchestrated to chime with Blair's unhelpful and unwanted intrusion into the debate in recent days.

Blair had his failings, made his mistakes and is in large measure the reason we have ended up with the Labour Party we have today. He does, nevetheless, have a clear message on Brexit and the fact he is seen by the present ruling group in the party as 'The Devil Incarnate' means that anything he says is treated with absolute disdain. It explains why (along with the UK electoral system ) the present party does not and will not have wide enough support in the general public to give it the clear power it so desperately seeks.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

As far as Theresa May and her despicable rabble of a party and government are concerned...................................DON'T even start me on that!

 

[rigsby]

Blair had his failings, made his mistakes and is in large measure the reason we have ended up with the Labour Party we have today. He does, nevetheless, have a clear message on Brexit and the fact he is seen by the present ruling group in the party as 'The Devil Incarnate' means that anything he says is treated with absolute disdain. It explains why (along with the UK electoral system ) the present party does not and will not have wide enough support in the general public to give it the clear power it so desperately seeks.

Blair had
a clear message that Iraq could launch WMD on Europe in 45 minutes....1,000,000 dead and counting. Still his book and dinner speaking in the US was a tremendous success.

We should have a people’s vote to see if he should be tried for war crimes.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As far as Theresa May and her despicable rabble of a party and government are concerned...................................DON'T even start me on that!

Do start on that, and finish on that. The referendum was a Tory policy, lying throughout the campaign was the Tories choice, tying to exclude Parliament in every part of the process was Tory authoritarianism, arguing amongst themselves rather than discussing with the EU is symptomatic of Tory encompetance.
If we don't 'get started' on this government we will be stuck with them till 2022 or beyond. We need to get the Tories out asap. Brexit is just one of many issues they are failing on.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Blair had his failings, made his mistakes and is in large measure the reason we have ended up with the Labour Party we have today. He does, nevetheless, have a clear message on Brexit and the fact he is seen by the present ruling group in the party as 'The Devil Incarnate' means that anything he says is treated with absolute disdain. It explains why (along with the UK electoral system ) the present party does not and will not have wide enough support in the general public to give it the clear power it so desperately seeks.

If you believe polls Blair is distrusted more than May, Corbyn and even Trump. The Remain cause would benefit from not using his words as validation.