Brexit negotiations thread

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Danny Dyer speaks the most sense on Brexit.

Cameron = ****. (Rhymes with cat).

Yep! He's got Cameron, spot on..............there are no words to describe the detestation and utter contempt in which I hold that man.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Apparently Call me Dave is having problems with his memoirs-particularly the chapter on his daft decision to call a Brexit referendum. Still I suppose one result out of two isn't so bad.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

TAKE A LAST LINGERING LOOK AT MS MAY & HER GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE AFTER JULY 6th WE RISK NEVER SEEING THEM AGAIN!

If the Daily Express is to be believed (and who doesn't believe what is written in the Daily Express?)


"Earlier this week it emerged Cabinet Ministers have been warned they will not be able to leave Chequers without a final agreement - even if it means going without sleep."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...ars-up-theresa-mays-customs-partnership-plans

In fact the article is quite interesting seing that it comes from a staunchly conservative and hard Brexit source. Can it really be, that some ministers still believe in a dangerous game of chicken with the EU (they're desperate for a deal and will cave in at the last moment)? Or is it that the Express smells a rat concerning the Brexit red lines being eased by Ms May?

 

[Benfleet A1]

The Express eh!!?. Was there any false hope diabetes cures and bollocks weather predictions as well?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The Express eh!!?. Was there any false hope diabetes cures and bollocks weather predictions as well?

I suppose we'll have to wait and see if they are included in the white paper. They will probably be more negotiable than what they turn up with.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Rafael Behr, in The Guardian, sums up brilliantly and succinctly my exact thoughts on where we are and where we are heading with Brexit

"The days when Brexit meant gazing out of the window at wispy cloud castles are over. Corbyn doesn’t want to say it. Johnson can’t say it. They don’t want to tell the public that the options are either: a deal worse than membership or no deal, which is worse than the worst deal."

The whole article can be seen here.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/theresa-may-brussels-brexit

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Outside of the Remain bubble:

I voted Remain and still want that and still think that will happen. But like most people my social media is full of people with similar opinions to me. When the weekly 'just get us out' audience pipe up I wonder where the Question Time researchers find these people. But....

Tory MP Mark Pritchard tweeted this:

Theresa May’s Brexit strategy has the support of the majority of the Parliamentary Party & Conservative Associations. If, on Friday, Ministers want to resign - they will be replaced. The govt will not collapse. The PM will survive - & 48 letters won’t materialize. Teamwork time.

The reply from me is 'what is her Brexit strategy?'
The reply from nearly everyone else is to kick out any MP not backing a 'real' Brexit, don't bother just leave now, if Brexit gets watered down I'll never vote Tory again, etc etc

Those of us who want to Remain should be aware that the country is still split right down the middle. Labour not supporting a 2nd referendum (currently) is probably doing you a favour. The most likely thing to stop Brexit is Tory inability to deliver it.
Asking the public again is no guarantee of a different outcome.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

A lot of the Leavers on here seem more interested in Labour Brexit policy than that of the government - I've never understood that other than as a deflection policy. These replies to the tweet above are much clearer about who has the power to deliver Brexit and the consequences of government incompetence.

10 Examples:

1.
Don't expect being in government much in the next couple of decades then!!! 17.4 million people won't forget

Remember you only got 13 million votes at the general election promising a real brexit!!

# brexit betrayal
# Tories are doomed

2.
And if you don’t deliver Brexit as voted for you will all be out of a job

3.
It doesn't have the support of the 17.4 million Brit's who voted to leave the EU & all its institutions, who gives a **** what the majority of the party thinks ! You ****ing work for us The British people do your job or **** right off ! Traitorous parasites.

4.
Let me doubt #Brexit means Brexit.

No deal is better than a bad deal - Who said that?

Should have been removed ages ago. We want Brexit IN FULL HD!

#WTO terms

And a Brexiteer with a Spine in @10DowningStreet

A spine is someone with bones & convictions !!!

A @wto lobbyist

5.
We voted to leave. The PM promised she would deliver the result, and promised she would take back control of our laws, borders and our money. May is clearly not going to stick to that. Let her carry on, but if she does, Brexit supporting Tories like myself will not vote Tory.

6.
Well if you want my vote again Mark she better get us out cleanly, and quickly!

7.
Two-faced Remainers like Mark are in for an almighty shock at the next GE, if Brexit isn't delivered.
Goodbye Conservatives for at least 3 GEs.

8.
The party will be finished
No one will vote for a party with a two faced liar as leader
After 52 years i wont
She promised us the Brexit we voted for not one wets like YOU want to force on us

9.
A reminder to all Tory MPs thinking of selling out the 17.4M & our country. This is your Nick Clegg students fees moment x it by 17.4M!!!

10.
The arrogance of Parliament. @theresa_may has to have the support of 17.4 million voters, not just a few trough feeders like yourself. It is not your Brexit, it is ours

 

[IloveShrimp]

And I bet he still gets a knighthood

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44694852

It's coming to something when Hague has to ask Tory Mp's to be nice to the PM.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

With the Tories in open mutiny and virtual Brexit meltdown, how on earth do you explain this?



Andrew Neil

✔ @afneil



https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1014072020441747457
Latest Westminster voting intention from YouGov (25-26 June)
CON 42%
LAB 37%
LD 9%
OTH 12%


Isn't it a damning condemnation of the opposition? If they can't benefit from the total disarray the Conservative government now finds itself in..................then when?

 

[MK Shrimper]

People would rather vote for a ****ed up Tory party than a left-wing Labour party which is quite sad.

 

[Benfleet A1]

People would rather vote for a ****ed up Tory party than a left-wing Labour party which is quite sad.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why? I don't even think its the left wing thing, I think its more people than policy.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Perhaps you should ask yourself why? I don't even think its the left wing thing, I think its more people than policy.

I very much doubt any left leaning politician would get an easy ride even if the Labour party had someone as photogenic as Justin Trudeau or a magnetic presence like Obama. There's an inherent distrust of left-wing politics in this country despite the absolute shambolic financial messes and illegal wars that the right & centre right have dragged us through over the last 29 years (and I include Blair's "New Labour" in that).

 

[Bielzibubz]

MK, it's not mistrust. It's as I've said many many times before. We live in a 'I want it and I want it now' society and consumerism, capitalism and personal greed feed into that mentality and supply it with what it craves. You can dress it up however you like but the little middle Englanders of this country like myself are doing ok thank you and they make up the majority of the voting public. That's why the likes of JC and his ilk will never see the inside of No10 and it's exactly why Labour lurched so far to the centre/right under Bliar. Because they knew at the time it was the ONLY way to get into power. Socialism as a fighting political alternative is dead and has been for a long time despite how many sign up to the PLP.

I know it's not what you want to hear and to tell the truth it sticks in my craw a little bit but I'm one of the guilty ones that plays into it because it gives me the life I like for myself and my loved ones.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You're ignoring the fact that if Labour had won 15 more seats in last year's GE they'd be in government now.

You will perhaps have also noticed that the POSE have taken power in Spain (albeit in a minority government)

 

[Napster]

You're ignoring the fact that if Labour had won 15 more seats in last year's GE they'd be in government now.

You will perhaps have also noticed that the POSE have taken power in Spain (albeit in a minority government)

and if my aunty had balls...

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Barna, here are the percentages for the 2017 General Election. Sadly, Labour appears to be going backwards, at a time when the Tories should be deeply unpopular.

Party %

CON Conservative 42.4 LAB Labour 40.0 LD Liberal Democrat 7.4 SNP Scottish National Party 3.0 UKIP UKIP 1.8 GRN Green Party 1.6

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Barna, here are the percentages for the 2017 General Election. Sadly, Labour appears to be going backwards, at a time when the Tories should be deeply unpopular.

Party %

CON Conservative 42.4 LAB Labour 40.0 LD Liberal Democrat 7.4 SNP Scottish National Party 3.0 UKIP UKIP 1.8 GRN Green Party 1.6

According to polls. What we learnt from the GE is that polls were not very accurate, and that the current form of the Labour Party are very good at campaigning so the amount of people willing to vote Labour increases when they actually hear about Labour policies. No one in the Labour Party is at all flustered about allegedly being a few percentage being before an election is called.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

MK, it's not mistrust. It's as I've said many many times before. We live in a 'I want it and I want it now' society and consumerism, capitalism and personal greed feed into that mentality and supply it with what it craves. You can dress it up however you like but the little middle Englanders of this country like myself are doing ok thank you and they make up the majority of the voting public. That's why the likes of JC and his ilk will never see the inside of No10 and it's exactly why Labour lurched so far to the centre/right under Bliar. Because they knew at the time it was the ONLY way to get into power. Socialism as a fighting political alternative is dead and has been for a long time despite how many sign up to the PLP.

I know it's not what you want to hear and to tell the truth it sticks in my craw a little bit but I'm one of the guilty ones that plays into it because it gives me the life I like for myself and my loved ones.

Labour took 40% in 2017 having seen their biggest vote rise since 1945.
You are not a potential Labour voter - you not understanding the appeal is not an issue - you are not a target.
Lots of people are comfortable and feel no need for change - this has always been the case. But many of those will have children and be aware that their chances of owning their own home have been massively reduced, that the chances of them being in insecure employment has massively increased. That if they need to use A&E they are likely to have a very long wait. etc etc.

Brexit - that will be the thing that tips the balance. If the Tories manage to secure a deal that appeals to the 17m that voted for it and appaese many of the 16m who didn't - then they will stay in power. If not then Labour will form the next government.