Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Airbus & now BMW are threatening to pull out of the UK. I truly believe a no deal scenario will wreck this country for generations. Yes, I'm truly worried about the future and I'm not alone.

I watched the start of BBC (their explanation of how BMW are effected by trade with the EU was revealing) and ITV news last night to see if there was a different take on this - there wasn't, it's not possible for there to be, the message is clear - big manufacturing business can not sit idle in the face of government inaction. This government need to actually do something rather than procrastinate as they have done for the last two years.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I watched the start of BBC (their explanation of how BMW are effected by trade with the EU was revealing) and ITV news last night to see if there was a different take on this - there wasn't, it's not possible for there to be, the message is clear - big manufacturing business can not sit idle in the face of government inaction. This government need to actually do something rather than procrastinate as they have done for the last two years.

Fully and 100% agree. And they will. The point I was making is that these threats are the kick in the nads these companies feel the government needs, and rightly so, but they are simply just threats. The drama and defeatist woes you hear on here sometimes are comical. Until something substantial actually happens how about we all just take a step back and chill.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Christ, don't you lot ever stop whining and winging? Who do you think your going to convince on here by your never ending moaning?

Especially you MK, bloody hell. What a drama queen....'Trouble is everyone will be to skint to go on holiday' :hilarious: You seriously believe that don't you?

Many of you talk like it's going to be the end of the world as we know it. Like the UK economy will crash like we've never seen before. Like it will take generations to recover from whatever fall out there is.

What I find truly astonishing is that so many of you on the left, and right for that matter (although many of them like me have given up posting in here but still watch from a distance and just laugh and shake our heads at the comments) are so entrenched in your political views that you cannot, will not and point blank refuse to see or even acknowledge anyone else's point of view or argument.

I see the same main news media stories as all of you and without fail when something negative about Brexit or this shambolic governments handling of it airs I can more or less predict with 100% accuracy who's going to be posting first, who's going to be posting what, who'll post links to what stories and above all who the usual suspects will be.

You all (well most, there are exemptions) have become quite entertaining in your own little way :winking:

I imagine you would include me in "you lot" To look at the situation objectively is as difficult for you as it is for me. Surely the great concern is that, two years on from the referendum and fast approaching the end game, little progress appears to have been made on major issues (our future trade relation with the EU, the Irish border problem). For May "Brexit means Brexit" but no one is sure what Brexit means. I think the article in the Independent this morning......... www.independent.co.uk/news/business...l-talks-anand-menon-theresa-may-a8411631.html
.................comes up with a simple conclusion of the two stark choice which face us and one which May will be forced to decide on...........sooner than later.

"Find a clever way of selling the status quo, or adopt a model that impacts severely on trade and hence our economy, and deal with the political consequences."

I appreciate your choice would certainly be the latter. Yet at the same time you have to accept that this direction would be a risk, a huge gamble, which undoubtedly you believe will come off. There are many including myself who (with a world that has already changed drastically since June,2016) are fearful and extremely sceptical about its chances of success, certainly in the short and even medium term.
You complain of 'us' whining and winging, yet what do you expect? Let's use this analogy. We're all in a plane that is set on automatic pilot heading towards the mountains. The Brexiters are convinced we will rise above the obstacle, the remainers are equally convinced we are going to crash. What do you expect us to do, sit quietly in our seats and calmly await our doom. You are demanding that, in these difficult times, we make an enormous leap of faith, into the unknown, because that's what it is. Cameron's jest (folly), was supposed to unite the Conservative Party for once and for all, this it has disasterously failed to do. All it has done is to bitterly and acrimoniously divide the nation, creating a wound which is unlikey to be healed any time soon.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Fully and 100% agree. And they will. The point I was making is that these threats are the kick in the nads these companies feel the government needs, and rightly so, but they are simply just threats. The drama and defeatist woes you hear on here sometimes are comical. Until something substantial actually happens how about we all just take a step back and chill.

We have waited two years for something to happen. If we had a white paper saying what they hoped would happen that would be something.


We have the slowest growth in the G7. Why step back and wait even longer? If the likes of Airbus and BMW relocate that is not a decision they take lightly - they wouldn't come back.


Yes the government do need a kick in the nuts and yes they do still have time to pull this round but there are no indications that is going to happen and they are very rapidly running out of time.


My prediction has always been that Brexit won't happen as this government is too incompetent to make it happen. It should be Leavers that are most concerned - Nigel Farage is. Boris Johnson was never a Leaver anyway, he will happily go along with whatever elevates him. The words from Farage are telling.

 

[Gremlin]

Oh dear. Give it a rest.....wreck the country for generations! Are you for real? If you really feel that way may I suggest going to join Tangled in sunnier climbs and you can then both sit and shout from afar 'I told you so' as loud as you like and gloat over the countries total demise.

This. All of this.

Having said that, do carry on with the bedwetting posts, MK. I don't think you realise the joy they bring.

 

[Benfleet A1]

We have waited two years for something to happen. If we had a white paper saying what they hoped would happen that would be something.


We have the slowest growth in the G7. Why step back and wait even longer? If the likes of Airbus and BMW relocate that is not a decision they take lightly - they wouldn't come back.


Yes the government do need a kick in the nuts and yes they do still have time to pull this round but there are no indications that is going to happen and they are very rapidly running out of time.


My prediction has always been that Brexit won't happen as this government is too incompetent to make it happen. It should be Leavers that are most concerned - Nigel Farage is. Boris Johnson was never a Leaver anyway, he will happily go along with whatever elevates him. The words from Farage are telling.

Airbus and BMW, if they relocate, will do so over a 4-5 year period. 14000 jobs with Airbus, I don't know the BMW figures but at a guess with the UK suppliers we are probably looking at around another 3-4 thousand. That's 19,000ish jobs and with Airbus, top end skilled jobs.

As you say, two years now and no white paper, we are as much in the dark now as we were then, I'm seriously worried. My industry relies on vast foreign investment, if building in London stops we stop rolling and tbat is becoming a real possibility. We are fine at the moment and have a couple of big jobs coming up that will keep us busy for the next year or so but after that, well my boss has always been very open with me about how things are, recently he has been very cagey and that isn't like him at all.I really hope he doesn't know something I don't.

I hope you are right about this not happening because when I see Liam Fox on the box telling us that all will be fine and dandy with a smile on his face but fear in his eyes then alarm bells ring even louder than they have been.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Some political expert said on the radio the other day that Theresa May shouldn't keep saying she will negotiate a good deal. He said she should say the truth, that it will be a bad deal because the EU are determined to make us suffer and they will hope it acts as a deterrent to any other Country that thinks of leaving in the future. He said they see her as a weak leader and don't respect her, and have got her by the wotsits and are painfully twisting.
Where's a Maggie Thatcher type leader when you need them?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Some political expert said on the radio the other day that Theresa May shouldn't keep saying she will negotiate a good deal. He said she should say the truth, that it will be a bad deal because the EU are determined to make us suffer and they will hope it acts as a deterrent to any other Country that thinks of leaving in the future. He said they see her as a weak leader and don't respect her, and have got her by the wotsits and are painfully twisting.
Where's a Maggie Thatcher type leader when you need them?

Yes, the truth is that any deal is going to be a bad deal for both the UK and the EU. What I don't get is this bit about the UK being punished. It's the UK which has decided to quit the club........right? So why is it beholden on the EU to bend its rules to facilitate the disruption it is causing. Viewed from this side of the Channel, why can't it be seen that it's the UK making the EU suffer?
I don't personally think the problem is simply down to the lack of a strong leader, anyone one would struggle with the cards they presently hold......and didn't the Brexiters tell us, we were hold all the negotiating cards, post referendum?....another lie.
Much as I really hated Thatcher, I don't for a minute believe she would have been as naive and stupid to allow the country to fall into this invidious and potentially economically catastrophic position. Cert, as far as the Tory party is concerned, the tail wouldn't have been permitted to wag the dog under her watch.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

This. All of this.

Having said that, do carry on with the bedwetting posts, MK. I don't think you realise the joy they bring.

are you happy with the progress that has been made over the last 2 years? Where we are right now - is that what you envisioned when you voted?

 

[MK Shrimper]

are you happy with the progress that has been made over the last 2 years? Where we are right now - is that what you envisioned when you voted?

Here's your response.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Quite an original 'alleged' comment.........................from a Tory! :smile:

"EU diplomats have claimed that during a Foreign Office reception to celebrate the Queen’s birthday last week, the Foreign Secretary was asked about the fears of some business leaders over Brexit and replied: “f*** business.”

 

[Bielzibubz]

are you happy with the progress that has been made over the last 2 years? Where we are right now - is that what you envisioned when you voted?

Here's your response.

Two things.

***. Yes, more or less because unlike some I didn't for one minute think it would be easy, blood and pain free or in the least without a whole lot of mud slinging, ********, threats and much much more. Unlike the vast majority on here I don't and never have pinned my political elegance to any one party so I am therefore able to see things from a somewhat unbiased and un-blinkered point of view. Something many on here clearly aren't.

MK. When I want to reply to a specific question put to me i'll do it in a time frame that suits me, not what others expect. I have a full time job, a small but flourishing private business to run in my spare time and also two 120 minute weekly radio shows I have to prep for so unlike you, and others I expect, this forum and the comments/replies within don't come very high on my list of priorities to deal with :thumbsup: Sorry about that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Two things.

***. Yes, more or less because unlike some I didn't for one minute think it would be easy, blood and pain free or in the least without a whole lot of mud slinging, ********, threats and much much more. Unlike the vast majority on here I don't and never have pinned my political elegance to any one party so I am therefore able to see things from a somewhat unbiased and un-blinkered point of view. Something many on here clearly aren't.

MK. When I want to reply to a specific question put to me i'll do it in a time frame that suits me, not what others expect. I have a full time job, a small but flourishing private business to run in my spare time and also two 120 minute weekly radio shows I have to prep for so unlike you, and others I expect, this forum and the comments/replies within don't come very high on my list of priorities to deal with :thumbsup: Sorry about that.

The idea that you're "somewhat unbased" is,of course, just laughable.:hilarious:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Two things.

***. Yes, more or less because unlike some I didn't for one minute think it would be easy, blood and pain free or in the least without a whole lot of mud slinging, ********, threats and much much more. Unlike the vast majority on here I don't and never have pinned my political elegance to any one party so I am therefore able to see things from a somewhat unbiased and un-blinkered point of view. Something many on here clearly aren't.

MK. When I want to reply to a specific question put to me i'll do it in a time frame that suits me, not what others expect. I have a full time job, a small but flourishing private business to run in my spare time and also two 120 minute weekly radio shows I have to prep for so unlike you, and others I expect, this forum and the comments/replies within don't come very high on my list of priorities to deal with :thumbsup: Sorry about that.

the post from MK was not about your post but one from Gremlin

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Two things.

***. Yes, more or less because unlike some I didn't for one minute think it would be easy, blood and pain free or in the least without a whole lot of mud slinging, ********, threats and much much more. Unlike the vast majority on here I don't and never have pinned my political elegance to any one party so I am therefore able to see things from a somewhat unbiased and un-blinkered point of view. Something many on here clearly aren't.

MK. When I want to reply to a specific question put to me i'll do it in a time frame that suits me, not what others expect. I have a full time job, a small but flourishing private business to run in my spare time and also two 120 minute weekly radio shows I have to prep for so unlike you, and others I expect, this forum and the comments/replies within don't come very high on my list of priorities to deal with :thumbsup: Sorry about that.

I would have thought that someone with no party allegiance would be even more likely to look at the situation and conclude that after two years the discussions still being unconcluded within the Caninet is not good enough.
Airbus and BMW tell the government to make a decision - give them something to work with, then a letter from other large business leaders to national newspapers - Mr Hunt's on record response is for them to pipe down and Mr Johnson's off record response '**** business'.
Mrs May spending non existent Brexit money on the NHS and now the defence secretary is on the front page of the Mail saying he wants the same or he will overthrow the PM.

I struggle to conceive that this is what people were voting for.

 

[MK Shrimper]

the post from MK was not about your post but one from Gremlin

Yep. The stock response is that we've got Brexit we don't care about the absolute mess that's being made of the deal that seemingly isn't going to happen and that's why I, and other remainers get labelled as bedwetters or libtards or snowflakes and any other pointless tag.

 

[Bielzibubz]

The idea that you're "somewhat unbased" is,of course, just laughable.:hilarious:

See, that's where you're wrong. i'm neither left, right or anything else. It's just that your so far left and entrenched anyone with an opinion or viewpoint that differs from your's is automatically a right winger.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Two things.

***. Yes, more or less because unlike some I didn't for one minute think it would be easy, blood and pain free or in the least without a whole lot of mud slinging, ********, threats and much much more. Unlike the vast majority on here I don't and never have pinned my political elegance to any one party so I am therefore able to see things from a somewhat unbiased and un-blinkered point of view. Something many on here clearly aren't.

I've never pinned my political allegiance to any party, never been a member of any political party and have voted for at least 4 different political parties over the last couple of decades, so when I criticise Brexit I'm criticising it from what you have described as an unbiased and unblinkered point of view.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I've never pinned my political allegiance to any party, never been a member of any political party and have voted for at least 4 different political parties over the last couple of decades, so when I criticise Brexit I'm criticising it from what you have described as an unbiased and unblinkered point of view.

And yours is the kind of unbiased and un-blinkered opinion I can fully respect. The fact I don't agree with it is neither here nor there. It's entrenched political ideals that shape and form others opinions that I have a problem with because without doubt if the Brexit negotiations had been going all the UK's way with no real hiccups they'd still find a **** stick to beat the right with.

Am I really that worried about the future? No. I've lived through the real **** times this country has been through and what's going to happen post Brexit won't even come close to what happened in the mid to late 70's, the crash of the late 80's and the 2008 financial crisis. Which is why I laugh to heartily and the comments made by the likes of MK and others. Anyone would think it's Armageddon on the horizon with our OAP's begging for scraps of food and the schools closing en mass because the system can't afford to heat them.

 

[MK Shrimper]

And yours is the kind of unbiased and un-blinkered opinion I can fully respect. The fact I don't agree with it is neither here nor there. It's entrenched political ideals that shape and form others opinions that I have a problem with because without doubt if the Brexit negotiations had been going all the UK's way with no real hiccups they'd still find a **** stick to beat the right with.

Am I really that worried about the future? No. I've lived through the real **** times this country has been through and what's going to happen post Brexit won't even come close to what happened in the mid to late 70's, the crash of the late 80's and the 2008 financial crisis. Which is why I laugh to heartily and the comments made by the likes of MK and others. Anyone would think it's Armageddon on the horizon with our OAP's begging for scraps of food and the schools closing en mass because the system can't afford to heat them.

You have absolutely no idea what the future holds. Your blind faith in those idiots running this **** show is staggering, as is your paranoia about the EU.