2017 General Election thread

[londonblue]

Sorry too busy enjoying a bit of schadenfreude.:smiles:

To answer your original comment-As Owen Jones says- "Blairism, New Labour, whatever you want to call it, is dead. It owed its hegemony to, frankly, despair: the idea that socialist policies were electoral poison, and offering them to the British people would invite only landslide Tory victories...... "No, Labour didn’t win, but it won its biggest increase in vote share since Clement Attlee in 1945 and is far closer to government than it was."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...jeremy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet-socialist-labour

Or to put it another way:

1979 - Callaghan 269 seats, resigned.
1992 - Kinnock 271 seats, resigned.
2017 - Corduroy 262 seats, claims victory and orders winner to resign.

Independent: Corduroy to resign of he loses.

 

[dloman]

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40268505


Diane Abbott diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes.As a fellow sufferer I'm happy to offer my sympathy and understanding.

Had it for two years as well still shouldn't suddenly make her forget all her figures. Guess you will offer your sympathy and understanding to type 1 diabetes sufferer and PM Theresa May as well then?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Had it for two years as well still shouldn't suddenly make her forget all her figures. Guess you will offer your sympathy and understanding to type 1 diabetes sufferer and PM Theresa May as well then?

Most certainly, as someone who before Xmas, was in danger of slipping into that category.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Or to put it another way:

1979 - Callaghan 269 seats, resigned.
1992 - Kinnock 271 seats, resigned.
2017 - Corduroy 262 seats, claims victory and orders winner to resign.

Independent: Corduroy to resign of he loses.

I'd have a good look at this article if I were you.https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hes-for-new-general-election-within-two-years

The reality is that the next two years are certain to be very difficult for the Tories with Brexit negotiations starting in earnest next week.

 

[londonblue]

I'd have a good look at this article if I were you.https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hes-for-new-general-election-within-two-years

The reality is that the next two years are certain to be very difficult for the Tories with Brexit negotiations starting in earnest next week.

That's nothing to do with what I posted, so why quote it?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That's nothing to do with what I posted, so why quote it?

You were talking (mostly) about the past.I was talking about the present and the future.

"Events,dear boy,Events."* :winking:

*Which was, of course,Harold Macmillan's classic reply, to a journalist who asked him what could blow a government off course.

 

[londonblue]

You were talking (mostly) about the past.I was talking about the present and the future.

"Events,dear boy,Events."* :winking:

*Which was, of course,Harold Macmillan's classic reply, to a journalist who asked him what could blow a government off course.

Stop being patronising. Your reply had nothing to do with my post. You didn't even address my point. You tried to swerve it.

No surprise there I suppose.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Stop being patronising. Your reply had nothing to do with my post. You didn't even address my point. You tried to swerve it.

No surprise there I suppose.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Or to put it another way:

1979 - Callaghan 269 seats, resigned.
1992 - Kinnock 271 seats, resigned.
2017 - Corduroy 262 seats, claims victory and orders winner to resign.

Independent: Corduroy to resign of he loses.

But the thing is, JC got a huge mandate on a left wing manifesto when people (in his own party) expected a trouncing. He helped to force a hung parliament and now May has to go cap in hand to the DUP to get her laws through, which she's suddenly realised have to be not as harsh as they would have wanted, not to mention the softening of Brexit - which is the very exact opposite of why she originally called the election. TM may have won, but in reality she lost, and as paid a high price.

JC may not have won the election, but his result certainly put a huge spanner into the works of the Tory machine - not to mention the British public shown he was electable and a very credible PM if he's still around next time. Labour have also hopefully realised that a New Labour, Blairite, right of centre party is not what the Labour voters want or need.

 

[dloman]

But the thing is, JC got a huge mandate on a left wing manifesto when people (in his own party) expected a trouncing. He helped to force a hung parliament and now May has to go cap in hand to the DUP to get her laws through, which she's suddenly realised have to be not as harsh as they would have wanted, not to mention the softening of Brexit - which is the very exact opposite of why she originally called the election. TM may have won, but in reality she lost, and as paid a high price.

JC may not have won the election, but his result certainly put a huge spanner into the works of the Tory machine - not to mention the British public shown he was electable and a very credible PM if he's still around next time. Labour have also hopefully realised that a New Labour, Blairite, right of centre party is not what the Labour voters want or need.

To be fair I don't think that is the point in what Londonblue stated. There is no doubt that they said Corbyn would resign immediately if he lost the 2017 election which he obviously did. Now if this was the other way round you would never hear the end of it until it happened as people would be claiming it's a huge u-turn. On the Brexit point well if you actually read the manifestos it could be argued that Labour and the Tories are not that far apart hence my point earlier about them both working together for the good of the country.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Cuts cost lives.


Gavin Barwell - the Housing Minister and MP for Croydon Central until last week, and Theresa May's new Chief of Staff - is being implicated for sitting on fire regulation reports. Previous Ministers had done the same. The issues with this tower block and others had been highlighted but no action taken.


This is the same thing with the police cuts. Investment in public services costs money and saves lives. It's a choice. It's right to highlight that when you vote you are expressing a choice on whether to invest in public safety or not.

 

[callan]

To be fair I don't think that is the point in what Londonblue stated. There is no doubt that they said Corbyn would resign immediately if he lost the 2017 election which he obviously did. Now if this was the other way round you would never hear the end of it until it happened as people would be claiming it's a huge u-turn. On the Brexit point well if you actually read the manifestos it could be argued that Labour and the Tories are not that far apart hence my point earlier about them both working together for the good of the country.

I don't doubt that despite many voting remain in the referendum, Zone Labour supporters are now fully backing Corbyns and Labours position (and manifesto) which is to leave the EU.

Both Corbyn and Mcdonnell have confirmed we will leave the Single market, which suggests they are in line with the conservatives in addition to Starmer confirming freedom of movement would end.

Both Tories and Labour in partnership should work together for the good of nation on this matter.

 

[MK Shrimper]

To be fair I don't think that is the point in what Londonblue stated. There is no doubt that they said Corbyn would resign immediately if he lost the 2017 election which he obviously did. Now if this was the other way round you would never hear the end of it until it happened as people would be claiming it's a huge u-turn. On the Brexit point well if you actually read the manifestos it could be argued that Labour and the Tories are not that far apart hence my point earlier about them both working together for the good of the country.

If Corbyn lost heavily then I'd expect to him to have resigned but he returned substantially more seats than anyone could have imagined. It'd be like Phil Brown walking as he "only" managed 7th place in League One. I very much doubt there are many Labour supporters (LB excepted :winking:) that want him to resign.

Are Labour & Tory close on Brexit? I have no idea. I imagine a lot of Tory MPs want us to completely shut the door on Europe and block up the Channel Tunnel.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Had it for two years as well still shouldn't suddenly make her forget all her figures. Guess you will offer your sympathy and understanding to type 1 diabetes sufferer and PM Theresa May as well then?

More likely to raise a glass in hope of her early demise.

As for Abbott, big deal, get on with it like the rest of us.

 

[londonblue]

But the thing is, JC got a huge mandate on a left wing manifesto when people (in his own party) expected a trouncing. He helped to force a hung parliament and now May has to go cap in hand to the DUP to get her laws through, which she's suddenly realised have to be not as harsh as they would have wanted, not to mention the softening of Brexit - which is the very exact opposite of why she originally called the election. TM may have won, but in reality she lost, and as paid a high price.

JC may not have won the election, but his result certainly put a huge spanner into the works of the Tory machine - not to mention the British public shown he was electable and a very credible PM if he's still around next time. Labour have also hopefully realised that a New Labour, Blairite, right of centre party is not what the Labour voters want or need.

He's crowing about heroic failure. For me failure is failure. He may have lost by less than expected, but he still lost. He should do the honourable thing and resign. If he doesn't then he has no right to call for May to do the same.

 

[MK Shrimper]

He's crowing about heroic failure. For me failure is failure.

A failure would have been a huge Tory majority and less than 200 Labour seats. That obviously didn't happen. Labour took seats in places like Canterbury & Kensington that have never been Labour, even under Blair.

He obviously didn't win, but it was an excellent result. You may not like JC, but he's put the skids under some of the Tories most brutual cuts and a hard Brexit. That in itself, in my eyes, is a win.

 

[EastStandBlue]

He's crowing about heroic failure. For me failure is failure.

I'll caveat this by thinking that Corbyn basking in glory, coupled with that standing ovation/song and dance welcome to the Commons yesterday, has been utterly ridiculous given the outcome of the election and the fact that we're on course for the furthest-right government in some time.

But, you have to regard the election result as something of an achievement for Labour, or at least give credit where credit is due. Labour were all but expected to be wiped out, but Corbyn has managed to rally the party and significant swathes of the electorate to win seats. That was unthinkable eight weeks ago.

As I've said though, for Corbyn to say this is a win for the party is rubbish. His job now becomes one of ensuring the party unites and continues to rally against the government, holding it to account wherever possible. Any indication that Corbyn is resting on his laurels should be jumped upon.

 

[rigsby]

Cuts cost lives.


Gavin Barwell - the Housing Minister and MP for Croydon Central until last week, and Theresa May's new Chief of Staff - is being implicated for sitting on fire regulation reports. Previous Ministers had done the same. The issues with this tower block and others had been highlighted but no action taken.


This is the same thing with the police cuts. Investment in public services costs money and saves lives. It's a choice. It's right to highlight that when you vote you are expressing a choice on whether to invest in public safety or not.

Indeed they do ***.

Can you tell me why Ken Livingstone was happy to cut Fire Stations when he was London Mayor because unlike other candidates he promised he wouldn't before he was elected. As did the Blair government nationally. Labour have been no better than the Tories when it comes to cuts to the emergency services.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'll caveat this by thinking that Corbyn basking in glory, coupled with that standing ovation/song and dance welcome to the Commons yesterday, has been utterly ridiculous given the outcome of the election and the fact that we're on course for the furthest-right government in some time.

But, you have to regard the election result as something of an achievement for Labour, or at least give credit where credit is due. Labour were all but expected to be wiped out, but Corbyn has managed to rally the party and significant swathes of the electorate to win seats. That was unthinkable eight weeks ago.

As I've said though, for Corbyn to say this is a win for the party is rubbish. His job now becomes one of ensuring the party unites and continues to rally against the government, holding it to account wherever possible. Any indication that Corbyn is resting on his laurels should be jumped upon.

Labour didn't win the election. But were expected to be obliterated. Out of power for 20 years. Even on 7th June many people predicted a 100 seat Tory majority. For the Tories to have no majority is a massive achievement for Labour.

And with the confidence that gave, within 2 days Survation (the pollsters that got closest to the result) had Labour at 6 points ahead in the polls. This is absolutely just the beginning.


No sign of any resting on laurels. The push for new members brought in 150,000 over the weekend, and the party have openly said they are aiming for a million members asap.


The list of apologies are long. The 'I'm sorry, I underestimated you, I'm now on board' statements from MPs and journalists means there will be very few not willing to unify. The odd few will easily be sidelined. They rallied around the manifesto but this is a long term commitment to unity. This will make a massive difference. MPs were told to fear for their jobs when led by Corbyn - now they fear for their jobs without him.


All of these plus points have come since the election. The Tories since the election have shown they have no manifesto left, no new ideas - Gove and Barwell are awful additions, no Brexit plan, missed dates on all of their post election responsibilities, and swathes of their own party and voters that are offended by the DUP tie in.


Labour didn't win the election but all indications point to them winning the next one and that could come round very soon.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Indeed they do ***.

Can you tell me why Ken Livingstone was happy to cut Fire Stations when he was London Mayor because unlike other candidates he promised he wouldn't before he was elected. As did the Blair government nationally. Labour have been no better than the Tories when it comes to cuts to the emergency services.

Blair and Livingstone have no involvement in UK politics so maybe ask Boris Johnson about the fire station closures while he was Mayor for two terms and then work backwards from there? Most recent first seems a prudent line of enquiry.