2017 General Election thread

[MK Shrimper]

I think any party who tries to force another election at this stage will lose very heavily. It's about time that they stopped bleating about the result and actually worked for the good of the country rather than personal gain. Seeing as both parties got around 75% on the national vote maybe just maybe they should try and find some common ground and put the country first for a change.

By the way this is aimed at all sides of the house.

The Tories are watering down their austerity policies and their Brexit approach is now similar to Labour's by all account so maybe?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think any party who tries to force another election at this stage will lose very heavily. It's about time that they stopped bleating about the result and actually worked for the good of the country rather than personal gain. Seeing as both parties got around 75% on the national vote maybe just maybe they should try and find some common ground and put the country first for a change.

By the way this is aimed at all sides of the house.

The Tories have twice recently put party before country.First when Cameron called for a referendum last June and second when Maybot called her recent snap election.

Of course this time around, the Tories will hope to stay in power for as long as they can but there's no guarantee that a Tory-DUP deal will last long.In any case, Labour are fully entitled to vote against any Tory Brexit or austerity plans which they feel are not in the national interest.

 

[dloman]

The Tories have twice recently put party before country.First when Cameron called for a referendum last June and second when Maybot called her recent snap election.

Of course this time around, the Tories will hope to stay in power for as long as they can but there's no guarantee that a Tory-DUP deal will last long.In any case, Labour are fully entitled to vote against any Tory Brexit or austerity plans which they feel are not in the national interest.

You just don't get it do you? In fact people like you are the cause and not the solution.If you remember at the previous election the referendum was in the manifesto you know the election the Tories won so the country was put first. Now bear in mind by instigating another election by voting down the Queen's speech will simply be putting personal gain before the good of the country. Just for a change why not work together then the majority of the people are happier though you would never be.

 

[MK Shrimper]

You just don't get it do you? In fact people like you are the cause and not the solution.If you remember at the previous election the referendum was in the manifesto you know the election the Tories won so the country was put first. Now bear in mind by instigating another election by voting down the Queen's speech will simply be putting personal gain before the good of the country. Just for a change why not work together then the majority of the people are happier though you would never be.

No, no, no. The minority of Tory voters who had been suckered by UKIP were put first. Cameron never thought for one second that the UK would vote for Brexit or he would never have held it.

The country is split in so many ways, the main parties are split as they haven't been since the 1980s - expecting the parties to work together is an absolute pipe dream.

 

[Blueronron]

MK seems genuinely concerned as to my well being so I'll post :smile: I've been quiet for a number of reasons. Some personal that I needn't go into and some because I was genuinely shocked at the result and needed time to take it in rather than come on here with knee jerk reactions to baiting posts made by the usual suspects.

I'll condense my thoughts as to what's happened this past week and then due to personal work load and circumstances I shall leave you all for a while again.

1. Part of me is actually pleased about the outcome. As I have said many times on here, the worst possible kind of democracy is one without a viable opposition to keep the government of the day in check and to give the people a 'real' choice. The fact I cannot abide JC's brand of far left wing Socialism is neither here nor there. Well, that and his own personal history.

2. May and her arrogance, together with an absolute shocker of a manifesto, blew it for the Conservatives and Corbyn picked up the seats he did by promising things to people (predominantly the younger disenfranchised voter) he'll never be able to deliver even if he did get into No10.

3. I couldn't be arsed to come on here and read page after page of comments by people that actually think the Labour party one in any way shape or form. All the Labour party have done is become a party of opposition at last, something they couldn't claim to be before.

4. Brexit will still go ahead. For me that's just as important as the GE.

5. You all assume I'm a right winger and tory voter. I did go to my local polling booth but didn't vote for any of the main parties. Assume from that what you will.

6. Will there be a another GE anytime soon? In my opinion, no chance. If Labour had a more centre left leader with policies to match they'd have walked this election and the Tories know it. Is it really that important in the great scheme of things? No, not really.

Right, I'm off again now. That £35k car with the £5k of extras ain't gonna fall into my lap :winking: and I don't do lease of on the knock :smile:

From that I take it you voted for Lord Buckethead/Mr Fish finger:smile:

UTS

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You just don't get it do you? In fact people like you are the cause and not the solution.If you remember at the previous election the referendum was in the manifesto you know the election the Tories won so the country was put first. Now bear in mind by instigating another election by voting down the Queen's speech will simply be putting personal gain before the good of the country. Just for a change why not work together then the majority of the people are happier though you would never be.

Actually,the reason that the referendum pledge was in the Tory 2015 manifesto was to hold the Conservative party together.

No, no, no. The minority of Tory voters who had been suckered by UKIP were put first. Cameron never thought for one second that the UK would vote for Brexit or he would never have held it.

Arguably, Cameron never thought he'd win an absolute majority in the 2015 election.The polls indicated there'd be another hung parliament, which would have allowed him to ditch the referendum pledge.

The country is split in so many ways, the main parties are split as they haven't been since the 1980s - expecting the parties to work together is an absolute pipe dream

.

 

[Uncle Leo]

That might be sooner than you (and other Tories) think.:raspberry:

(Sigh). Disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily mean someone is a Tory.

You're the one with a George Osborne quote in his signature.

Still, you swerved the point nicely two posts in a row. Keep up the good work!

 

[MK Shrimper]

(Sigh). Disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily mean someone is a Tory.

You're the one with a George Osborne quote in his signature.

Still, you swerved the point nicely two posts in a row. Keep up the good work!

Come on Barna, everyone know Uncle Leo votes for Lord Bucket Head, even when he's not on the ballot.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Come on Barna, everyone know Uncle Leo votes for Lord Bucket Head, even when he's not on the ballot.

Every. Single. Time.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

(Sigh). Disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily mean someone is a Tory.

You're the one with a George Osborne quote in his signature.

Still, you swerved the point nicely two posts in a row. Keep up the good work!

Sorry too busy enjoying a bit of schadenfreude.:smiles:

To answer your original comment-As Owen Jones says- "Blairism, New Labour, whatever you want to call it, is dead. It owed its hegemony to, frankly, despair: the idea that socialist policies were electoral poison, and offering them to the British people would invite only landslide Tory victories...... "No, Labour didn’t win, but it won its biggest increase in vote share since Clement Attlee in 1945 and is far closer to government than it was."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...jeremy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet-socialist-labour

 

[callan]

Sorry too busy enjoying a bit of schadenfreude.:smiles:

To answer your original comment-As Owen Jones says- "Blairism, New Labour, whatever you want to call it, is dead. It owed its hegemony to, frankly, despair: the idea that socialist policies were electoral poison, and offering them to the British people would invite only landslide Tory victories...... "No, Labour didn’t win, but it won its biggest increase in vote share since Clement Attlee in 1945 and is far closer to government than it was."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...jeremy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet-socialist-labour

Do you ever have an original opinion of your own?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's obviously all opinion and guesswork but I'm surprised (maybe not so very surprised) by the people who think Labour need to move to the centre to be elected.


Blair was voted in on a landslide but his policy went off message towards the end of his time as PM and the Labour vote started dropping during his time and carried on dropping. What was on offer was variations on his centre/left approach.


But it has stopped dropping. Labour now have a mass membership and they have enthusiasm, and they have started embracing an untapped and very large section on the public - non-voters.


Much has been said of Labour looking in the wrong places but that has been disproved in 2017. The young can be persuaded to vote. Previous non-voters can be persuaded to vote. Real people talking to each other can diminish the power of the biased media. A left wing manifesto can and does appeal. The great campaign ran by Labour was by having solid policy ideas and reaching the unreachable. Moving to the centre dilutes this and there is no need.


People that talk of how Labour could have beaten a weak May if they had a different leader are looking in the wrong place. The manifesto is down to the leader and the manifesto is driving the momentum. The very fact that Labour removed the Tory majority pulls in more people to vote next time round, or to join the party right now. This is no time to change tack, this is the time to follow the path laid out in May.


For the good of the country - no propping up of a Tory/DUP government to get Brexit going, cross-party support is short term stable and long term damage. Force the government to fall, new election, new government, positive outlook to plan for the future. A government who sells out Northern Ireland and ditches their manifesto for the guarantee of 10 extra votes that always vote their way anyway is a recipe for disaster and shows a complete lack of a backbone. The Tories ability to govern looks even weaker than it did in the campaign. End the instability now and start afresh.

 

[California Shrimper]

It's obviously all opinion and guesswork but I'm surprised (maybe not so very surprised) by the people who think Labour need to move to the centre to be elected.


Blair was voted in on a landslide but his policy went off message towards the end of his time as PM and the Labour vote started dropping during his time and carried on dropping. What was on offer was variations on his centre/left approach.


But it has stopped dropping. Labour now have a mass membership and they have enthusiasm, and they have started embracing an untapped and very large section on the public - non-voters.


Much has been said of Labour looking in the wrong places but that has been disproved in 2017. The young can be persuaded to vote. Previous non-voters can be persuaded to vote. Real people talking to each other can diminish the power of the biased media. A left wing manifesto can and does appeal. The great campaign ran by Labour was by having solid policy ideas and reaching the unreachable. Moving to the centre dilutes this and there is no need.


People that talk of how Labour could have beaten a weak May if they had a different leader are looking in the wrong place. The manifesto is down to the leader and the manifesto is driving the momentum. The very fact that Labour removed the Tory majority pulls in more people to vote next time round, or to join the party right now. This is no time to change tack, this is the time to follow the path laid out in May.


For the good of the country - no propping up of a Tory/DUP government to get Brexit going, cross-party support is short term stable and long term damage. Force the government to fall, new election, new government, positive outlook to plan for the future. A government who sells out Northern Ireland and ditches their manifesto for the guarantee of 10 extra votes that always vote their way anyway is a recipe for disaster and shows a complete lack of a backbone. The Tories ability to govern looks even weaker than it did in the campaign. End the instability now and start afresh.

If the current coalition implodes, do you think that Labour will win a majority in an election against the Tories under Johnson? I know Boris is not popular among the left but he is a shrewd political operator and I don't see him making the same mistakes as May. There were obviously UKIP and Brexit voters who went to Labour this time - maybe Boris could win them back, especially if he makes a deal with Farage?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Financial Times:


The UK’s Brexit department has seen two of its four ministers depart this week, just days before negotiations with the EU are due to start, in a sign of mounting tensions between Downing Street and the ministry’s leadership.


David Jones, who led the Welsh arm of the Vote Leave campaign ahead of last June’s referendum, was sacked on Monday night and replaced by Joyce Anelay, a Foreign Office veteran who campaigned to remain in the EU. David Davis, the Brexit secretary, was not warned.


George Bridges, who was in charge of pushing Brexit legislation through parliament, quit on Tuesday after falling out with Theresa May, the prime minister.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If the current coalition implodes, do you think that Labour will win a majority in an election against the Tories under Johnson? I know Boris is not popular among the left but he is a shrewd political operator and I don't see him making the same mistakes as May. There were obviously UKIP and Brexit voters who went to Labour this time - maybe Boris could win them back, especially if he makes a deal with Farage?

Some people are drawn to the cartoon version of Boris which I believe is why he became Mayor - people I think see it as a bit of a figurehead role. But his decision making as Mayor was appalling.

The Barclays bikes he only got half of the sponsorship money as the contract was flakey, just before leaving that job he ordered extra of the crazy expensive bendy busses that were not fit for purpose, we are still lumbered with the water cannons he bought but was never allowed to use, the public have paid and continue to pay for West Ham to have a free ground, the stairlift over the Thames thing, the millions pumped into the garden bridge, the millions pumped into 'Boris Island'.


He was given the job of Foreign Secretary despite racially abusing the outgoing US president, generally abusing the current US president, likening Germany and the EU to the Nazis, writing a rhyme about the president of Turkey calling him a ******. That is all in the past two years, go further back and it gets more dodgy.


So Johnson as leader of the Tories (after he bailed last time) would just give a an annoying smug smirk. He is completely devoid of substance - I would love to see him in PMQs.


Farage - why would anyone consult him? Ex leader of a party that have no MPs and got 1.8% of the vote. He shouldn't even take a seat on Question Time let alone in any capacity that represents this fine nation.

 

[California Shrimper]

Some people are drawn to the cartoon version of Boris which I believe is why he became Mayor - people I think see it as a bit of a figurehead role. But his decision making as Mayor was appalling.

The Barclays bikes he only got half of the sponsorship money as the contract was flakey, just before leaving that job he ordered extra of the crazy expensive bendy busses that were not fit for purpose, we are still lumbered with the water cannons he bought but was never allowed to use, the public have paid and continue to pay for West Ham to have a free ground, the stairlift over the Thames thing, the millions pumped into the garden bridge, the millions pumped into 'Boris Island'.


He was given the job of Foreign Secretary despite racially abusing the outgoing US president, generally abusing the current US president, likening Germany and the EU to the Nazis, writing a rhyme about the president of Turkey calling him a ******. That is all in the past two years, go further back and it gets more dodgy.


So Johnson as leader of the Tories (after he bailed last time) would just give a an annoying smug smirk. He is completely devoid of substance - I would love to see him in PMQs.


Farage - why would anyone consult him? Ex leader of a party that have no MPs and got 1.8% of the vote. He shouldn't even take a seat on Question Time let alone in any capacity that represents this fine nation.

I get it - you don't like Boris and you don't like Farage. But do you think Labour can win a majority if Boris is leading a hard-Brexit Tory party with Farage's endorsement (and hence most of UKIP's votes).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I get it - you don't like Boris and you don't like Farage. But do you think Labour can win a majority if Boris is leading a hard-Brexit Tory party with Farage's endorsement (and hence most of UKIP's votes).

it's not about liking Johnson, it's about him being a calamity. And Farage is old news, he quit a party that is now in free fall. Yes Labour can beat those two, Corbyn found his stride and the election came too early, the momentum is still there and I can't see who in the Conservative Party that the public will trust right now.

 

[kaymac]

Ah, but would you put your trust in Corbyn?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Do you ever have an original opinion of your own?

Yes.I'm pro-Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party.:winking:

Labour ran a first rate campaign with a manifesto that offered hope and Social Democrat ideals to the (nearly) 13 million people that voted for it.

"Analysis of the new marginal seats shows that a swing of just 1.63% to Labour would deliver the 34 gains that Jeremy Corbyn needs to make it the largest party in the Commons".

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...e-jeremy-corbyn-lays-plans-for-labour-victory

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ve-alliance-made-jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40268505


Diane Abbott diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes.As a fellow sufferer I'm happy to offer my sympathy and understanding.