Updated..Yesterday's Meeting

[Yorkshire Blue]

Don't want to shoot you down, but where do you get your information from?

Stockport?

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Exactly... You pay the most threatening creditor first. HMRC have the ability to wind us up, so they get paid. Unfortunately, the PFA's ability cover wages means that players come quite low as a priority for a struggling football club.

But if we've paid the players but not paid HMRC maybe Ron is setting his own rules as he does?

 

[EastStandBlue]

But if we've paid the players but not paid HMRC maybe Ron is setting his own rules as he does?

Well, it depends. Ron might've thought that he'd get away not paying HMRC for a week or so, in which time the council meeting would've validated the phased-stadium approach and Sainsbury's would've cleared the transfer of funds, allowing HMRC to be paid albeit a bit late.

 

[* ORM *]

No one has said that we paid late. The Club are saying that HMRC hit us with the Winding Up opetition after we were overdue by two days. I suspect that we haven't paid at all.

Why didn't we pay? We haven't got any money!

If Ron shaved his head would the hair care savings account for most of the shortfall ?

 

[Beefy]

If Ron shaved his head would the hair care savings account for most of the shortfall ?

I'd happily pay the tax bill myself in exchange for those flowing locks.

 

[Beefy]

Well, it depends. Ron might've thought that he'd get away not paying HMRC for a week or so, in which time the council meeting would've validated the phased-stadium approach and Sainsbury's would've cleared the transfer of funds, allowing HMRC to be paid albeit a bit late.

That sounds about right. If he was on better terms with HMRC he might have got away with it.

 

[superblue24]

Exactly... You pay the most threatening creditor first. HMRC have the ability to wind us up, so they get paid. Unfortunately, the PFA's ability cover wages means that players come quite low as a priority for a struggling football club.

They have the "ability" to wind us up, but haven't done so the last few times.

The PFA can cover wages, yes, but I get the feeling that being paid by the PFA is not as "instant" as being paid by the club direct into their bank accounts. It's actions like these that create bad feeling and de-motivation amongst the players and before we know it, we'll have everyone leaving again at the end of the season and a whole new fleet of worse players being signed up in the summer signalling our certain demise into the Conference.

View attachment 1264
View attachment 1264
Remember last year? Players not getting paid hurt the club far more than the HMRC situations.

 

[Beefy]

They have the "ability" to wind us up, but haven't done so the last few times.

The PFA can cover wages, yes, but I get the feeling that being paid by the PFA is not as "instant" as being paid by the club direct into their bank accounts. It's actions like these that create bad feeling and de-motivation amongst the players and before we know it, we'll have everyone leaving again at the end of the season and a whole new fleet of worse players being signed up in the summer signalling our certain demise into the Conference.

View attachment 1264
View attachment 1264
Remember last year? Players not getting paid hurt the club far more than the HMRC situations.

Does this not sum up the problem that the Club have? They have a small pot of funds and two things which are both massively important to pay. The pot doesn't cover both.

 

[EastStandBlue]

They have the "ability" to wind us up, but haven't done so the last few times.

The PFA can cover wages, yes, but I get the feeling that being paid by the PFA is not as "instant" as being paid by the club direct into their bank accounts. It's actions like these that create bad feeling and de-motivation amongst the players and before we know it, we'll have everyone leaving again at the end of the season and a whole new fleet of worse players being signed up in the summer signalling our certain demise into the Conference.

View attachment 1264
View attachment 1264
Remember last year? Players not getting paid hurt the club far more than the HMRC situations.

Because they haven't done so the last few times bears no impact on their future actions. If we weren't able to pay our tax obligations, they'd certainly take matters that far.

I do remember last year, as it goes. I remember us paying our tax obligations to save the club from extinction and, had we paid the players what they were due, when they were due it, it's highly likely that we wouldn't have lasted the season. Call me old fashioned, but I'd prefer we had a club to support even if it is in League Two rather than having no club at all. The taxman absolutely takes priority over player wages as far as expenditure goes, IMO.

 

[superblue24]

Because they haven't done so the last few times bears no impact on their future actions. If we weren't able to pay our tax obligations, they'd certainly take matters that far.

I do remember last year, as it goes. I remember us paying our tax obligations to save the club from extinction and, had we paid the players what they were due, when they were due it, it's highly likely that we wouldn't have lasted the season. Call me old fashioned, but I'd prefer we had a club to support even if it is in League Two rather than having no club at all. The taxman absolutely takes priority over player wages as far as expenditure goes, IMO.

My point is that the HMRC is likely to be paid by Sainsburys again rather than the clubs cash flow. I think that keeping the players paid on time is more important than the HMRC on time which can be delayed. (albeit frowned upon)

We may end up in court again, but if Ron is able to satisfy the judge that the money is "on it's way", then the HMRC won't be able to do squat.

There's plenty of protection for businesses against being shut down by the HMRC, especially if there is evidence that the company have the funds to pay.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

They have the "ability" to wind us up

HMRC definitely have the ability to wind the fans up.

 

[united we stand]

No one has said that we paid late. The Club are saying that HMRC hit us with the Winding Up opetition after we were overdue by two days. I suspect that we haven't paid at all.

Why didn't we pay? We haven't got any money!

sorry quite right, for some reason I thought we ahd paid two days late, but I now see that the reality is I guess that we will be at least a week late.

I think what has happened here is more significant than we (or me anyway) perhaps realise.
As supporters we were lead to believe that we had a deal with Sainsburys which would mean that they would lend us the money as and when we needed it . It now appears that this is not that simple. I am guessing that there were milestones that we did not meet ????
We are now told on this thread that a new agreement is being drawn up . How long untill Sainsburys play hardbull again , or we miss targets which means they stop funding us and we pay staff/players/HMRC/creditors/Anyone/everyone late again.

the only positive is 'its only £20,000 and we are being told that we will have a new deal in place soon

 

[fbm]

Sainsburys clearly didn't give us the money until the outcome of the hearing was known. Why should they? If the council had voted "no" then we would be up a gum tree and as Ron stateed, the whole thing would have collapsed around our ears. Sainsburys clearly wouldn't then have to keep bailing us out and could just wait for the club to be wound up before moving into RH.

That's why the Council decision was such a good one (for us, as fans) because it means we still have a club to support.

I reckon Ron has paid the players to avoid a repeat of last years fiasco, and thought (probably quite reasonably, actually) that if the council said "yes" then the Sainsburys money would follow almost immediately so he pay the taxman late but within 7 days of the due date.

HM R&C have been clearly sitting with their finger on the button, waiting for the morning post NOT to contain the cheque from SUFC and as soon as that happened sent the order.

I would imagine, if anything, that from a financial point of view and the stadium now apparently proceeding with CPO's being issued, it really just is a question of time before the diggers start and that puts us in a better position than we were a year ago. That would surely give HM R&C no incentive to press for winding up; after all, if it all comes off they'll get much more tax in future from a successful development and football club than by tripping it up and preventing it from going down the last mile of what seems like a marathon.

 

[Cricko]

Just had a call and we do owe 2 players some of their wages from last month....Paterson and Spencer who because of their departures from us and wages being paid elsewhere some mix up occurred.

Hotoffthepress.com.:smiles:

 

[onceknownasrab]

I do not condone non-payment of revenue but I for one am getting pretty ticked off with these constant petitions against us. It is clear Sainsburys are involved with us and they have viability, credibility and an army of accountants and lawyers. If HMRC are not prepared to listen to their assurances just so they can have a pop at our club then its a very bad day. All we are seeing are time consuming and costly court appearances. It does not matter how much RM has to pay in costs,it will never cover the true expenditure of court proceedings and man hours of HMRC. Its us, not just fans, but the tax paying public who are forking out for these schoolboy spats. I think its time we collectively let HMRC and the Government know our feelings and how much we deplore the blatant abuse of scarce funds from the public coffers that are emptier than Rons war chest.

 

[londonblue]

What I do find interesting is that Southend Council have been very sympathetic and "helpful" in all of this, by issuing CPOs, and agreeing to a phased approach.

However, compare that to other councils who have actually helped fund stadiums for their local teams such as Doncaster...

 

[Cricko]

Oh and I remembered a bit more..Once the stadium starts The Club/RM will be in a much better position to be able to arrange further finance.....M&S are ready to sign up to be in the retail area of FF.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

That sounds about right. If he was on better terms with HMRC he might have got away with it.

Which is where all our problems started from last season. His EGO is a major downfall and i can vouch for that from speaking to him.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I do not condone non-payment of revenue but I for one am getting pretty ticked off with these constant petitions against us. It is clear Sainsburys are involved with us and they have viability, credibility and an army of accountants and lawyers. If HMRC are not prepared to listen to their assurances just so they can have a pop at our club then its a very bad day. All we are seeing are time consuming and costly court appearances. It does not matter how much RM has to pay in costs,it will never cover the true expenditure of court proceedings and man hours of HMRC. Its us, not just fans, but the tax paying public who are forking out for these schoolboy spats. I think its time we collectively let HMRC and the Government know our feelings and how much we deplore the blatant abuse of scarce funds from the public coffers that are emptier than Rons war chest.

Time to boycott HMRC?

 

[onceknownasrab]

Time to boycott HMRC?

Your tongue in cheek suggestion is not what I had been angling for. I do believe that ministers should be lobbied for them to exert pressure upon the HMRC to prevent further waste of public funds.