Ukip

[Tangled up in Blue]

WHAT have they done to the Guardian on line??? :unsure:

Yeah, looks like it'll take a bit of getting used to.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Anyone got any eggs to spare? :smile:

Surely you have enough on your face already?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

There seems to be quite a bit of this going on. Farage isn't the chosen one quite as much as he thinks he is. If he doesn't win Thanet then I think he will be gone as party leader. I'd personally back Carswell to take over who I think would be a lot more palatable to people.

Carswell may be a better party leader but he isn't a man of the people like the public-school educated, city banker with a foreign wife paid by the EU has somehow painted himself to be. Carswell lacks that Have I Got News For You touch that has propelled UKIP forward. He doesn't appeal to the person turned off by politics who think that "they're all in it for themselves" other than, inexplicably Farage who earns is remunerated even more from the EU than those at Westminster.

However, as we've seen with Clegg, perceptions can quickly change. This time 5 years ago I Agree With Nick was hotter than Kate Upton whereas he's now as cold as it is outside and an electoral liability.

Regardless of your view of their politics, UKIP are a shambles organisationally. This is partly because of their rapid growth, but do they want to slow down and consolidate and become a more rounded party with a vaguely coherent platform, credible candidates and solid structure if that's going to take a decade of treading water to achieve?

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

There seems to be quite a bit of this going on. Farage isn't the chosen one quite as much as he thinks he is. If he doesn't win Thanet then I think he will be gone as party leader. I'd personally back Carswell to take over who I think would be a lot more palatable to people.

Farage himself has suggested that he may step down if he doesn't win in the coming election. He must be tired of talking in vain to technocrats and empty seats in the European Parliament. I doubt they'd pick a Tory defector as their new leader as it would just reinforce the idea that UKIP are just a bunch of disaffected Eurosceptic Tories. I imagine it would be someone like Paul Nuttall who has served the party for a long time and who has the common touch like Farage does.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Carswell may be a better party leader but he isn't a man of the people like the public-school educated, city banker with a foreign wife paid by the EU has somehow painted himself to be. Carswell lacks that Have I Got News For You touch that has propelled UKIP forward. He doesn't appeal to the person turned off by politics who think that "they're all in it for themselves" other than, inexplicably Farage who earns is remunerated even more from the EU than those at Westminster.

However, as we've seen with Clegg, perceptions can quickly change. This time 5 years ago I Agree With Nick was hotter than Kate Upton whereas he's now as cold as it is outside and an electoral liability.

Regardless of your view of their politics, UKIP are a shambles organisationally. This is partly because of their rapid growth, but do they want to slow down and consolidate and become a more rounded party with a vaguely coherent platform, credible candidates and solid structure if that's going to take a decade of treading water to achieve?

Pretty tough to pick any holes in that really. I agree that the immigration angle is starting to wear thin, Carswell said as much recently in a speech which rattled Farage a bit but he has kept reasonable quite over it. The whole point of UKIP was the exit of the UK from the EU which I know sounds a bit lame considering the amount of UKIP MEP's but the European Parliament at least gave a platform to launch from and with the defections of both Carswell and Reckless, you could argue that, to a degree, it has worked.

As to the organisation of the party, you are bang on the money. It has ballooned quickly and caught UKIP out if the truth be told. A victim of their own success if you will. I partly disagree with the notion of slowing down and consolidation simply because if they drop too far of the radar then they risk never getting back on it again. But I do agree that it will be a work in motion although I think they will be more credible within 10 years.

And as much as Farage has put UKIP in the public eye, I don't think he can take the party any further after the election. As I stated elsewhere, I think Carswell would be my preferred replacement.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Farage himself has suggested that he may step down if he doesn't win in the coming election. He must be tired of talking in vain to technocrats and empty seats in the European Parliament. I doubt they'd pick a Tory defector as their new leader as it would just reinforce the idea that UKIP are just a bunch of disaffected Eurosceptic Tories. I imagine it would be someone like Paul Nuttall who has served the party for a long time and who has the common touch like Farage does.

Nuttall strikes me as ever so slightly like a double glazing salesman. Tim Acker will be worth keeping an eye on in the future and if Carswell doesn't get the nod when Farage goes then I can see Stephen Woolf taking over.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Pretty tough to pick any holes in that really. I agree that the immigration angle is starting to wear thin, Carswell said as much recently in a speech which rattled Farage a bit but he has kept reasonable quite over it. The whole point of UKIP was the exit of the UK from the EU which I know sounds a bit lame considering the amount of UKIP MEP's but the European Parliament at least gave a platform to launch from and with the defections of both Carswell and Reckless, you could argue that, to a degree, it has worked.

As to the organisation of the party, you are bang on the money. It has ballooned quickly and caught UKIP out if the truth be told. A victim of their own success if you will. I partly disagree with the notion of slowing down and consolidation simply because if they drop too far of the radar then they risk never getting back on it again. But I do agree that it will be a work in motion although I think they will be more credible within 10 years.

And as much as Farage has put UKIP in the public eye, I don't think he can take the party any further after the election. As I stated elsewhere, I think Carswell would be my preferred replacement.

The other thing about UKIP's growth is that it's taking the party in a different direction. Whilst the founder was a former liberal, UKIP quickly became a home for those to the right of the Tory party. UKIP's growth since the last election though has been as a more working class, populist party. Now those two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but it has spun-off in a different direction: almost from the golf club bore to the party of white van man.

Can they develop a more coherent platform and turn themselves from a single issue party into a fully rounded party? It's possible. The SNP eventually managed it in Scotland.

I agree that Farage probably hasn't got much further he can take the party after the election. He'll be leading a party with maybe a handful of MPs, not big enough or committed enough (going on their European record) to influence proceedings at Parliament. What may save him is if the Tories get in and hold a referendum. That will provide him with the national platform as he'll be the main voice of "out", as all the other leaders will be "on balance, stay in". But if he loses the referendum (and I'd call it much like the Scottish Independence referendum) or there isn't a referendum, he would seem to be running out of road. There's tension between the local and national parties which doesn't bode well for a party who will struggle to turn poll numbers and expectation into seats.

As to who would replace him, Carswell is an interesting character. It was brave to stick his head above the parapet and not only switch to UKIP but to put it to the voters. He's a slightly more independent thinker than most in the Commons and was, I think, one of the more principled ones when it came to expenses. Like a Tony Benn, Teddy Taylor or Dennis Skinner I think he'd attract support as a MP from those who don't agree with his politics. Whether that translates into being a national leader, I'm rather more sceptical about.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Interesting posts from Yorkie and Genial on this and good to read a sensible discussion without anyone trying to protect their corner. I disagree on Carswell's bravery though, I think he stitched up his ex party as a PR move that the tax payers had to pay for. His party had signed up for fixed terms of office and then ducked out a few months early, I don't see how he gains respect for that.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

Surely you have enough on your face already?

Look in the mirror Matt :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/vi...-campaign-trail-thanet-general-election-video

Al Murray in UKIP land.Is he Britain's funniest comedian?

"I'm glad you asked me that question.":winking:

 

[steveo]

Not about UKIP but a fairly amusing Guardian link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/04/ed-balls-bill-newsnight-somebody-business-labour-supporter

Good old Bill Somebody.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Not about UKIP but a fairly amusing Guardian link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-newsnight-somebody-business-labour-supporter

Good old Bill Somebody.

and evn worse for Labour when Bill was tracked down and given the opportunity to speak was monumentally unconvincing.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

UKIP is launching its election campaign in Canvey Island of all places tomorrow.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

UKIP is launching its election campaign in Canvey Island of all places tomorrow.

They will never take the rock.
Talking of ukip where is Wally as i have not heard/read anything from him in a couple of days.

 

[Benfleet A1]

UKIP is launching its election campaign in Canvey Island of all places tomorrow.

Keeping the location quite and invite only. Mine must have been lost in the post.

 

[Crawliano]

How odd, Canvey - the most white place in England is being targeted by a party who want to keep their country white.

90% white population or something in the last published census.

Seriously, the clamour when I lived at my mum and dads when a black family moved in over the road was almighty. Canvey is Farage's dream, the deep south of England.

 

[Crawliano]

By the way anybody seen that shop in Benfleet with the "WE SUPPORT UKIP" on it? It's on the London Road near Tarpots. I hope the owners of said shop get firebombed. *****.

 

[Crawliano]

I'm not a UKIP fan.

 

[McNasty]

How odd, Canvey - the most white place in England is being targeted by a party who want to keep their country white.

90% white population or something in the last published census.

Seriously, the clamour when I lived at my mum and dads when a black family moved in over the road was almighty. Canvey is Farage's dream, the deep south of England.

Are you a member of the Canvey Liberation Front?

 

[Crawliano]

Are you a member of the Canvey Liberation Front?

**** off! 'Canvey Liberation Front'. I'm in the Liberation Front of Canvey! 'Canvey Liberation Front'?