SUFC: The Future The Takeover - Very very close.

[Jai]

He's basically blackmailing them. He's effectively saying the sale won't go through unless things are resolved in a way he's happy with, even though they aren't really anything to do with the club or sale.

I'd call it trying it on rather than blackmail. His negotiating hand is too weak to call it blackmail. Eventually, like everything else along the line with this deal, he has nothing to lose by trying it on, and he will hope he can get to as good as position as possible, but if push comes to shove, he will have to relent because the man is financially ruined and if there is no FF, his son is screwed as well. There are a lot of big investors that will want their money back from him and he will have nowhere to turn.

 

[Avl1983]

I hope you're right and he wouldn't choose to pull the plug on the deal and try to sell off all the land etc. and let the club fold.

 

[kentblues]

Like everyone else I don't have a clue what is going here (I'm just not going to make assumptions).

However, it is I think a stretch to suggest the council aren't really anything to do with the club or sale. After all they are a fundamental part of the commercial agreement for FF, and without that the sale can't proceed. Likewise with planning and again their support is fundamental. They are in practical terms (and in due course contractual terms) partners to the development.

 

[Ron Manager]

But remember the rat ‘loves this f****ing club’

He said it so it must be true right?

 

[tommy tucker]

The council said thay want to help with the sale of the club by allowing the homes to be built on fossetts land . Well they has a very strange way of helping Slowing down the prosess is no help at all .Some of these concilors are ment to be season ticcket holders But they cant seem to grasp the need for this takeover to get over the line Am i thick or are they .

 

[Shrimper]

He's basically blackmailing them. He's effectively saying the sale won't go through unless things are resolved in a way he's happy with, even though they aren't really anything to do with the club or sale.

Which is why they need to issue an ultimatum. Accept it this week or you get nothing.

 

[Maldon Blues]

I read somewhere that the old South Stand had 72 terrace steps. Such a shame that Jobson turned it mostly into flats.

As much as Ron has let Roots Hall rot in recent seasons, there's no doubt that the 'quality' of Vic Jobson's early-mid 90s refurb has played a part!

 

[kentblues]

The council said thay want to help with the sale of the club by allowing the homes to be built on fossetts land . Well they has a very strange way of helping Slowing down the prosess is no help at all .Some of these concilors are ment to be season ticcket holders But they cant seem to grasp the need for this takeover to get over the line Am i thick or are they .

This is true but their help extends much further - they are effectively funding the project by leasing then taking ownership of a large number of the residential units.

 

[CaptainSmudger]

The council said thay want to help with the sale of the club by allowing the homes to be built on fossetts land . Well they has a very strange way of helping Slowing down the prosess is no help at all .Some of these concilors are ment to be season ticcket holders But they cant seem to grasp the need for this takeover to get over the line Am i thick or are they .

You asked for this Tommy…..Yes, You Are Thick!

 

[tommy tucker]

Ron is a crooked areshole maybe its time for a new pressure on him by the fans And hopfully Anna Firth will finaly get answers from Rat man but i wont hold my breath .

 

[rigsby]

I'd call it trying it on rather than blackmail. His negotiating hand is too weak to call it blackmail. Eventually, like everything else along the line with this deal, he has nothing to lose by trying it on, and he will hope he can get to as good as position as possible, but if push comes to shove, he will have to relent because the man is financially ruined and if there is no FF, his son is screwed as well. There are a lot of big investors that will want their money back from him and he will have nowhere to turn.

So many on here have claimed that but is that really true. He still has his PP for 800+? houses at B&L.

At moment he still owns RH with has PP for 500 units. He is giving a site worth £25+m away for £1 only if the land where the stadium was to be built can now become residential. The delay is now because no councillor, MP or even a group of councillors can guarantee that.

We can't wait until full PP is given, that could take easily 2 or more years. There will be plenty of objections and demands for infrastructure improvements etc. Then we could have change of big ideas by central government or newly voted, I'm not so keen on SUFC, council members.

As for others calling on the council to issue him an ultimatum. They can't act like private individual or company. Councils can't grant PP and then remove it because they din't like someone... Also they don't want to because their only real and late interest in our football club is because of the housing headaches the project solves for them......More to the point its really not in any fans interest for the deal to collapse at this stage.

Finally and crucially its in the best Interests of the consortium for the Council and Ron to be in agreement and that agreement must be water tight.....We all know what will happen if it isn't.

Can't compare this takeover with any other. I don't know anyone who has ever heard of even similar property deal. Frustrating but it was never going to be quick and we should be thinking of the next 20-50 years rather than focusing on number of subs.

 

[kentblues]

Which is why they need to issue an ultimatum. Accept it this week or you get nothing.

Again this is based on speculation (without evidence) that its Ron holding things up. Maybe true, maybe not. AF hints one way, consortium members the other. We don't know.

The other possibility (and yes more speculation but I may as well join in) that we should not simply ignore is that Ron is the middle man here to the extent the development partners and/or charge holders have to be satisfied and are also making demands. Probably why Son of Ron is so involved.

At this precise moment there are changes on land at RH that likely secure a few £million of debt. The charges have to be moved or satisfied. Ron is pot less. So someone else is going to need to be sufficiently happy with what comes out of this to satisfy the charge (come up with a few £million), or there needs to be something else that the charge holder will agree to transfer the charge to?

We don't know what we don't know.

 

[kentblues]

So many on here have claimed that but is that really true. He still has his PP for 800+? houses at B&L.

At moment he still owns RH with has PP for 500 units. He is giving a site worth £25+m away for £1 only if the land where the stadium was to be built can now become residential. The delay is now because no councillor, MP or even a group of councillors can guarantee that.

We can't wait until full PP is given, that could take easily 2 or more years. There will be plenty of objections and demands for infrastructure improvements etc. Then we could have change of big ideas by central government or newly voted, I'm not so keen on SUFC, council members.

As for others calling on the council to issue him an ultimatum. They can't act like private individual or company. Councils can't grant PP and then remove it because they din't like someone... Also they don't want to because their only real and late interest in our football club is because of the housing headaches the project solves for them......More to the point its really not in any fans interest for the deal to collapse at this stage.

Finally and crucially its in the best Interests of the consortium for the Council and Ron to be in agreement and that agreement must be water tight.....We all know what will happen if it isn't.

Can't compare this takeover with any other. I don't know anyone who has ever heard of even similar property deal. Frustrating but it was never going to be quick and we should be thinking of the next 20-50 years rather than focusing on number of subs.

Much of this is of course true. However, a couple of things I would add. First on valuing what he has already, we have to net off all the debt secured against these sites/developments. He may well still be comfortably in the "black" or not, I don't know. Second irrespective of this, his issue is likely cash flow/liquidity- asset rich cash poor, and nothing he can easily leverage further. I seem to remember the Dellal group of companies have back to back charges that would impact on his ability to fully leverage these assets?

In the end all I care about is the sale going ahead very quickly. And until then all parties are under the microscope...

 

[Cricko]

So many on here have claimed that but is that really true. He still has his PP for 800+? houses at B&L.

At moment he still owns RH with has PP for 500 units. He is giving a site worth £25+m away for £1 only if the land where the stadium was to be built can now become residential. The delay is now because no councillor, MP or even a group of councillors can guarantee that.

We can't wait until full PP is given, that could take easily 2 or more years. There will be plenty of objections and demands for infrastructure improvements etc. Then we could have change of big ideas by central government or newly voted, I'm not so keen on SUFC, council members.

As for others calling on the council to issue him an ultimatum. They can't act like private individual or company. Councils can't grant PP and then remove it because they din't like someone... Also they don't want to because their only real and late interest in our football club is because of the housing headaches the project solves for them......More to the point its really not in any fans interest for the deal to collapse at this stage.

Finally and crucially its in the best Interests of the consortium for the Council and Ron to be in agreement and that agreement must be water tight.....We all know what will happen if it isn't.

Can't compare this takeover with any other. I don't know anyone who has ever heard of even similar property deal. Frustrating but it was never going to be quick and we should be thinking of the next 20-50 years rather than focusing on number of subs.

An agreement with the council cannot be water tight if they as you stated yourself cannot guarantee future planning decisions. As @Jai said earlier something has to give because atm he is 39 mill in hock to his backers.

 

[defender05]

It does sound like the council have made a rod for their own back by saying in the meeting that the flats could be transferred but have been asked to put it in writing and they can't.

 

[geoffmundo]

But remember the rat ‘loves this f****ing club’

He said it so it must be true right?

Yeah, but I guess he loves money (and big money) more

 

[rigsby]

An agreement with the council cannot be water tight if they as you stated yourself cannot guarantee future planning decisions. As @Jai said earlier something has to give because atm he is 39 mill in hock to his backers.

Yes, I was thinking more about the £20m with that point. How will that be legally enforced?....At what stage of the build will it be paid. What if Ron sells on before the build etc.......Then if all goes t**ts up do the backers trump football club when comes to getting paid.

Obviously the consortium know their stuff and they think it will be paid within 5 years. As properties aren't selling and sites being mothballed, I doubt there is many on here who would put their pension or house on a 5 years or less bet.

 

[fbm]

Like everyone else I don't have a clue what is going here (I'm just not going to make assumptions).

However, it is I think a stretch to suggest the council aren't really anything to do with the club or sale. After all they are a fundamental part of the commercial agreement for FF, and without that the sale can't proceed. Likewise with planning and again their support is fundamental. They are in practical terms (and in due course contractual terms) partners to the development.

Absolutely this.

We are in a bit of a state I think.

Ron can't exactly take a leap of faith and just go for it unless he has got 100% guarantee in place about the new properties at FF. If he does and they don't grant it, he's lost pretty much everything (aside from whatever he gets from the sale) and we won't get our 20m either.

I can't see how the council can (legally and properly) give him that guarantee without planning permission being sorted, which is nowhere near happening as I don't think he's even put the plans in.

If it doesn't progress and the deal collapses, he then owns RH and FF, won't fund the club and we will have no option but to fold I would imagine. He can then sell both plots for development (albeit after a fight).

Please someone tell me I'm wrong or have missed something.

 

[Cricko]

Yes, I was thinking more about the £20m with that point. How will that be legally enforced?....At what stage of the build will it be paid. What if Ron sells on before the build etc.......Then if all goes t**ts up do the backers trump football club when comes to getting paid.

Obviously the consortium know their stuff and they think it will be paid within 5 years. As properties aren't selling and sites being mothballed, I doubt there is many on here who would put their pension or house on a 5 years or less bet.

If RM takes a flyer with the council i guess the consortium will have to do the same with the 20mill. At this stage nobody can have their cake and eat it.

 

[Holy Joe]

It does sound like the council have made a rod for their own back by saying in the meeting that the flats could be transferred but have been asked to put it in writing and they can't.

At the meeting they agreed to pursue the transfer of leasing flats at FF rather than RH - that can continue to be pursued through to formal agreement - as it was previously - what they can't do is prejudice any future planning application. We don't know what Ron is asking for so we don't know if the council can or cannot do it.