The Ashes Thread

[Yorkshire Blue]

I was listening to Geoff Miller yesterday giving his reasons for the selection and was struggling to put aside the growing thought that the selctors are morons. He was saying Trott plays as they have a policy of consistent selection and he was in the squad for the 4th test so was the consistent choice and they wont be panicked etc. Consistency is only useful if its backing the right decisions rather than being consistent for consistencies sake. Time will tell on that one.

On the other hand he didnt address the consistency issues that sees Ravi dropped (probably rightly so generally) and Ian Bell promoted despite barely have any more success than Ravi in this series and certainly no more success than him in the past year of international cricket. Ravi started ahead of Bell this series, neither has done well, so why does Ravi get the axe? I guess as they felt he needed a rest and Trott (the selection for consistency) cant bat at 3 so they needed Bell to move up, not wanting to be 'inconsistent' by picking Key.

We now have a Warwickshire middle order at the vital 3 and 4 (maybe 5) positions. If it fails then serious questions have to be asked of Ashley Giles involvement.

Still, really hope they both leave me with egg on my face and they get centuries...

The selectors have certainly been consistent in picking Ian Bloody Bell.

Is it not 3 picks for this (I assumed the team was 2 openers, 3 middle order, 1 allrounder, 1 keeper, 3 quicks and one spinner?). Trueman and Willis seem the most likely candidates (though how bloody miserable would the dressing be having them two together!)

Im a bit surprised Gough is in there, as loved by me as he was, he did have a fair few off days and I thought Caddick was his equal when they were both at their best.

I was reading about Larwood this morning and how he was made a scapegoat in the PR between cricket boards after the body line despite only bowling by his captains instructions. An apology was drawn up for him to sign which he (rightly) refused to do so and so was dropped.

However for irking those convicts so much, if it is 3 spots, he can share new ball duties with Willis and Trueman.

Was Willis that great?

I get the impression he was a bit of a Harmison.

I also think Tyson's career has great similarities with Simon Jones. Statham is probably comparable to Hoggy.

I make these comparisons not merely to help judge the older players, but because I think those quicks from the 2005 series are genuinely up there and need to be included in the conversation.

I've opted for Fred Trueman, easily the best English fast bowler I have seen. Frank Tyson for terrorising the convicts on their own tracks in 1954/55, by all accounts he was extremely fast. My third pick is John Snow, just edging Larwood. Apart from Headingley 1981, I never really thought Willis was that good, added to which he was a poor captain, and a drone on legs as a "commentator".

Trueman would be my stand out pick. Then probably Barnes and then Larwood from that list but that depends on what the criteria is - are we talking sustained careers or peaks?

I think my all-time England XI would probably have both Flintoff and Botham in, and I doubt I'd bother with a specialist spinner.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Trueman would be my stand out pick. Then probably Barnes and then Larwood from that list but that depends on what the criteria is - are we talking sustained careers or peaks?

I think my all-time England XI would probably have both Flintoff and Botham in, and I doubt I'd bother with a specialist spinner.

I'd be inclined to have Botham & Flintoff in my team. For a spiiner I'd be inclined to go for Hedley Verity.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'd be inclined to have Botham & Flintoff in my team. For a spiiner I'd be inclined to go for Hedley Verity.

Michael Vaughan would probably be my spinner.

Or Wilfred Rhodes. Or Tony Greig.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Michael Vaughan would probably be my spinner.

Or Wilfred Rhodes. Or Tony Greig.

Rhodes is a good call, certainly with 4000+ first class wickets.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Rhodes is a good call, certainly with 4000+ first class wickets.

Yeah, but I'm only picking him because he worked his way up from no.11 to open the batting!

 

[canveyshrimper]

Yeah, but I'm only picking him because he worked his way up from no.11 to open the batting!

And still shares with Jack Hobbs the record 1st wicket stand for England against the convicts.

 

[canveyshrimper]

I was listening to Geoff Miller yesterday giving his reasons for the selection and was struggling to put aside the growing thought that the selctors are morons. He was saying Trott plays as they have a policy of consistent selection and he was in the squad for the 4th test so was the consistent choice and they wont be panicked etc. Consistency is only useful if its backing the right decisions rather than being consistent for consistencies sake. Time will tell on that one.

Having just seen the squad for the ODI's & T20 matches, where on earth is James Foster? So much for continuity of selection. And taking it a stage further and with Essex bias aforethought, why on earth did Graham Napier get selected for the World T20, not get a game and then not selected at all?

 

[SUFC Forever]

Since I saw my first Test match (England v Australia) at The Oval in 1972, this is the best England Test team selection I have personally seen play since that day.

In batting order -

1. Geoff Boycott.
2. Dennis Amiss.
3. Graham Gooch.
4. David Gower.
5. Kevin Pietersen.
6. Ian Botham.
7. Andrew Flintoff.
8. Alan Knott (Wicket Keeper)
9. John Snow.
10. Derek Underwood.
11. Bob Willis.

Who I would name as captain I really do not know. Seven of them captained England in Test cricket but not really outstandingly. I suppose Gooch would be the one (reluctantly) I'd give the job if pushed.

One thing I do know, if we could get them all back via time machine for Thursday, the Ashes would be coming home for sure.

How Ian Bell has been re-selected to play in this deciding Test I do not know.

Going back to that first ever visit to a Test, I remember we actually turned up and paid on the day to sit on the grass. Went with a school pal of the time - Roy Daltrey and had to leave at 5pm because his mum and dad never let him stay out any later than 6.30pm. We had a fight not long after and never spoke again for the final 3 years of secondary school. Happy days!!!

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Michael Vaughan would probably be my spinner.

Or Wilfred Rhodes. Or Tony Greig.

Tony Greig all the way. Even if he'd never picked up a bat or ball.

 

[SUFC Forever]

Exactly the dilemma I went through. Stewart is, I think I'm right in saying, England's most-capped player - so it's a pretty tough call to leave him out. His average is also almost 40 - very respectable for a wickie.

But everything I've heard about Knott - from his ability to stand up, which places considerable pressure on the opposition, to the obduracy of his batting (and a test average of almost 33) - means that he just squeezes in past Stewart for me.

Believe me, having watched both on many occasions, Stewart though a far superior batsman to Knott was not ever in the same stratosphere as a keeper to either Knott or Bob Taylor.

You could make a case for Godfrey Evans as the best England keeper of all time but never having seen him play I will stick with what my own eyes told me that Knott is the best by a country mile I ever saw live. 95 Tests (and it would have been many, many more had he not signed to play for Kerry Packer and tour South Africa on the rebel tours of the 1980's) also scoring over 5,000 runs was no mean feat either.

Stewart took the gloves from a much better keeper (Jack Russell) when he was not even keeping for Surrey at the time for the pure and simple reason that England needed to accomedate another batsman in the side. He improved over the years beyond all recognition but to even begin to compare his keeping with that of Knotty is quite frankly laughable.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Since I saw my first Test match (England v Australia) at The Oval in 1972, this is the best England Test team selection I have personally seen play since that day.

In batting order -

1. Geoff Boycott.
2. Dennis Amiss.
3. Graham Gooch.
4. David Gower.
5. Kevin Pietersen.
6. Ian Botham.
7. Andrew Flintoff.
8. Alan Knott (Wicket Keeper)
9. John Snow.
10. Derek Underwood.
11. Bob Willis.

Who I would name as captain I really do not know. Seven of them captained England in Test cricket but not really outstandingly. I suppose Gooch would be the one (reluctantly) I'd give the job if pushed.

I truly admired Boycott as a batsman, but I'll never forgive him for making himself a self imposed exile from the England team, under the spurious guise of wanting to give time to strenghening Yorkshire, when the true reason was he thought he should be England captain and he wouldn't play under Mike Denness. For the record I'd go with the following XI.

1. Gooch
2. Edrich
3. Cowdrey
4. Dexter (c)
5. Barrington
6. Botham
7. Knott
8. Flintoff
9. Trueman
10. Snow
11. Underwood

Wouldn't mind seeing that lot take on the convicts.

 

[Uncle Leo]

In terms of the wicket keeping spot, you'd surely have to pick a specialist. The batsman selected would surely be good enough that you could afford a decent (e.g Knott) as opposed to very good (Stewart) batsman at 7 or 8.

 

[canveyshrimper]

In terms of the wicket keeping spot, you'd surely have to pick a specialist. The batsman selected would surely be good enough that you could afford a decent (e.g Knott) as opposed to very good (Stewart) batsman at 7 or 8.

Knott was more than good enough to bat 7 for England, he was a bloody good player of spin, and very brave against the quicks.

Going back further another Kent keeper Les Ames scored over a hundred first class centuries and he was by all accounts a more than competent keeper.

 

[number11]

I truly admired Boycott as a batsman, but I'll never forgive him for making himself a self imposed exile from the England team, under the spurious guise of wanting to give time to strenghening Yorkshire, when the true reason was he thought he should be England captain and he wouldn't play under Mike Denness. For the record I'd go with the following XI.

1. Gooch
2. Edrich
3. Cowdrey
4. Dexter (c)
5. Barrington
6. Botham
7. Knott
8. Flintoff
9. Trueman
10. Snow
11. Underwood

Wouldn't mind seeing that lot take on the convicts.

Not been following cricket as long .....my first interest I remember was listening to the '87 world cup final with my grandad, and the first test matches I paid attention to was the awful '89 home thrashing against Australia. So watching test cricket for last 20 years, there have been some pretty awful times until FLetcher and Nasser took over.

1. Gooch
2. Vaughan (Captain)
3. Robin Smith
4. Graham Thorpe
5. Pieterson
6. Stewart (WK)
7. Flintoff
8. *
9. Gough
10. Caddick
11. Harmison

*Pretty impossible to pick a spinner. Of the top of my head, I can remember Embury, Giles, Panesar, Tufnell, Swann, Such, Salisbury, Illingworth, Min Patel, Croft, Schofield, Watkinson, Blackwell, Batty, Udal, Dawson. Im sure there must have been more I have forgotten. Embury always seemed quite decent and could bat, as could Giles, and Monty probably has the best record, but none stand out for selection.

Given Trescothick, Hussain, Atherton, miss out despite very good careers in the 20 years Ive been watching, and I caught the tail end of Lamb, Gower, Botham (but all past their best by then), there were some choices in batting line up. THat Harmison (at his peak) got into my bowling team shows we have been pretty woeful with the ball in the past 20 years. Who else would come in for contention......Cork for about a 2 year spell, Hoggard for his career, Jones for one series.....not much else.....

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

1. Hutton
2. Hobbs
3. Sutcliffe
4. Grace
5. Barrington
6. Flintoff
7. Botham
8. Evans
9. Pratt
10. Trueman
11. Larwood

Of ones I've watched

1. Gooch
2. Atherton
3. Vaughan*
4. Pietersen
5. Thorpe
6. Stewart+
7. Flintoff
8. Botham
9. Gough
10. Hoggard
11. Simon Jones

To be honest, I'm picking Beefy more on reputation than on what he did when I saw him play, so I should probably drop him then one of Dominic Cork (if it was swinging), Harmison (if we are picking players at their peak, rather than over their careers) or Craig White.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Is that Gary Pratt?

To be fair with that line up, you can afford to have a specialist fielder.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Is that Gary Pratt?

To be fair with that line up, you can afford to have a specialist fielder.

It is indeed.

Couldn't see the point of another bowler, couldn't see the point of another batsman.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Of players I've seen...

Gooch
Trescothick
Vaughan (c)
Pietersen
Thorpe
Gower
Stewart (wk)
Flintoff
Harmison
Hoggard
S. Jones

12th man (to swap with Jones depending on the track) - Monty Panesar

My all-time XI is shaping up thus:

1. Hobbs
2. Vaughan (c)
3. Hammond
4. Pietersen
5. Cowdrey
6. Botham
7. Knott
8. Barnes
9. Trueman
10. Willis
11. Underwood

 

[Southminster_Shrimper]

looking forward to attending on Saturday and hopefully there seeing us clinch the win on Monday aswell.

if nothing else should be many beers drunk during the day and then the good ole Roebuck afterwards for some snakebite :)

 

[BrettieAngell]

Well the time for talking is over, its time to stand up and be counted!!

COME ON ENGLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!