Thanks Kev - but is a new manager needed?

[Leigh_Seasider]

Well, he has shown incredible loyalty the the club through our darkest times, as has been said even helping people out of his own pocket. Just last season he was lauded for what he achieved both by supporters, the owners and football pundits everywhere.

Now just 6 months and 20 games later that loyalty means nothing, and for sure is not reciprocated by some. All the happy just to have a club and take time to build was never meant. Just words. He has yet to have anything like the support he deserves, despite the alternative facts. ITKs have repeatedly explained this, for example, explaining how recruitment was so badly impacted in the summer. Something to which some simply refuse to listen, Even now in an, at last, fruit drink free window, even if January (and yes we can sign out of the window but that seems to make no difference) there seems to be a sudden new hurdle- the cast of thousands have a new "process" that is proving difficult to bed in...

COSU on one hand have rewarded him and the management team with long contracts which is clearly positive support. On the other at the moment they all seem to be hiding behind the sofa letting Kev take all the flack. Not a good look and seemingly not a little weak. Maybe they need a vote on what to say. I don't know.

What I do feel, even allowing for how fickle football supporters often are, is how quickly some have turned on Kev is very, very unfair. I am grateful for what the management team did to hold us together when it would have been easy for it all to fall apart. And I find an unwillingness to allow Kev and the management team time to make the changes they need, bring in the people they need, to have a crack at the rest of this season and the next, without restrictions, whether through fruit drinks or broken internal "processes", completely lacking in gratitude.

As you ask and it's just just my opinion. And clearly 1 in 3 on here would not agree with me. Everyone's opinions should of course be respected.

So you're backing Kev there but slating COSU who have had even less time than he has to turn round this ****show. Perhaps you'd rather go back to Ron and his excellent communication methods (not to mention the sterling work he was doing keeping the Hall ship-shape). Perhaps you'd rather chuck money at the issue Ron-style - what if Maher then fails with these better players? Still COSU's fault I guess?
The thing is - the crowd are turning. If the crowd are turning it matters not whether Justin thinks Kev is a lovely fella who he'd buy a pint ... no ownership will tolerate falling crowds and a toxic atmosphere - which is what I saw the beginnings of ... quite worryingly .. on Sat. This 'large silent majority' who support the current state of play are getting smaller and louder.

 

[kentblues]

So you're backing Kev there but slating COSU who have had even less time than he has to turn round this ****show. Perhaps you'd rather go back to Ron and his excellent communication methods (not to mention the sterling work he was doing keeping the Hall ship-shape). Perhaps you'd rather chuck money at the issue Ron-style - what if Maher then fails with these better players? Still COSU's fault I guess?
The thing is - the crowd are turning. If the crowd are turning it matters not whether Justin thinks Kev is a lovely fella who he'd buy a pint ... no ownership will tolerate falling crowds and a toxic atmosphere - which is what I saw the beginnings of ... quite worryingly .. on Sat. This 'large silent majority' who support the current state of play are getting smaller and louder.

No to be absolutely clear, and for the avoidance of doubt, I am not slating COSU who absolutely deserve our support and loyalty. I am pointing out that their communication has, on this, been sub optimal, and the current workings of the transfer process equally (hopefully temporarily) sub optimal. No more than that. Unless we are saying they cannot be criticised for anything then it seems reasonable to make the observation?

In the final part of your reply you are telling us what the ownership will and won’t tolerate. I would much prefer the communication from them.

 

[Napster]

The crazy part is, two of the consortium were around in the Ron days. They know communication could be better.

 

[Shrimper]

I'm still on the fence. I think he does need to be given the summer but I don't have a lot of faith in the recruitment at the moment

 

[Liam AAS]

I just remain baffled by the question. To me the following are indisputable:

• We are playing badly and not scoring enough goals;
• 2 of our best players left in the summer and were not replaced with anyone of sufficient quality in a timely manner;
• A transfer embargo caused by Ron ****ing around with the council in the summer meant we missed out on at least 1 top-tier target;
• Some players, for whatever reason, are having their worst run of form during their time at the club;
• Some players recruited have not been up to scratch (at least not on a consistent basis) but that is a risk that exists for all clubs;
• Other teams do try to beat us and will occasionally be successful. We have no divine right to win anything because we have higher average attendance figures or have spent most of our history in the football league and other teams have player regional football. That is the pyramid, everyone is in the correct divison on merit;
• We have a small squad by choice. That is a risk and inhibits tactical flexibility. The wage bill at the end of the 22/23 season was £2.6m. That has been cut, almost certainly as a sustainability measure, by COSU;
• Wages are the single biggest metric that tracks league position;
• We need a minimum of 3 players ASAP who are ready to deliver the performances and results that will get us into contention for promotion

In my opinion, most of those things aren't on Maher's shoulders, but I would put money on the table that he is still losing sleep over it.

If Maher is sacked then any new manager is walking into the same situation. I would like to see us play more attractive football and score more and concede fewer but I also believe that there's enough credit in the bank for Maher to have a real crack.

I still see no benefit in sacking him.

 

[sufc4life21]

The silent treatment does indicate that all is not well between management team and COSU. No incoming signings, disgruntled fanbase, squad of players who moral is rock bottom. This indicates that COSU are considering going in different direction and are prepared to make tough decision soon which will shock few. It wouldn't surprise me if kev and co are no longer at Southend come next week.

 

[blues exile]

The silent treatment does indicate that all is not well between management team and COSU. No incoming signings, disgruntled fanbase, squad of players who moral is rock bottom. This indicates that COSU are considering going in different direction and are prepared to make tough decision soon which will shock few. It wouldn't surprise me if kev and co are no longer at Southend come next week.

Hope you are right, I thought the same thing

 

[leeblue]

I just remain baffled by the question. To me the following are indisputable:

• We are playing badly and not scoring enough goals;
• 2 of our best players left in the summer and were not replaced with anyone of sufficient quality in a timely manner;
• A transfer embargo caused by Ron ****ing around with the council in the summer meant we missed out on at least 1 top-tier target;
• Some players, for whatever reason, are having their worst run of form during their time at the club;
• Some players recruited have been up to scratch (at least not on a consistent basis) but that is a risk that exists for all clubs.
• Other teams do try to beat us and will occasionally be successful. We have no divine right to win anything because we have higher average attendance figures or have spent most of our history in the football league and other teams have player regional football. That is the pyramid, everyone is in the correct divison on merit.
• We have a small squad by choice. That is a risk and inhibits tactical flexibility. The wage bill at the end of the 22/23 season was £2.6m. That has been cut, almost certainly as a sustainability measure by COSU.
• Wages are the single biggest metric that tracks league position
• We need a minimum of 3 players ASAP who are ready to deliver the performances and results that will get us into contention for promotion

In my opinion, most of those things aren't on Maher's shoulders, but I would put money on the table that he is still losing sleep over it.

If Maher is sacked then any new manager is walking into the same situation. I would like to see us play more attractive football and score more and concede fewer but I also believe that there's enough credit in the bank for Maher to have a real crack.

I still see no benefit in sacking him.

Hearing the new manager was in charge of a NL team that was literally the worst job in football, almost constant transfer embargoes, players not getting paid, club almost out of existence, points deduction, sometime only 12 players on a matchday yet went back to back seasons with a chance of the play offs and won manager of the year last year.....Still had to deal with an embargo up to the start of this season.
Good prospect I reckon.
Give him a good pre season and you never know.

 

[BEERMONSTER]

There's a lot coming from the Kev out band. ( myself included) I would like to hear more from the 47% that want him to stay. Is it what he's done for Southend or is it another reason.

In simple terms for many Kev still has plenty of loyalty and patience in the bank. It's felt he is owed the opportunity of a unhindered crack at getting out of this League.
Many are able at this time to carpark the disappointment of underachieving performance and style of play because still being able to have the Club in existence pushes their buttons more than what is on offer on the pitch matchday!
I made the observation previously both COSU and Kev are currently in a 'Honeymoon period' with the silent majority, It's an unusual stance for football fans to take given it's a results judged, value for money approach in the norm, which is clearly being reflected by the Kev out camp but at the moment for that silent majority it's not all about the football, well not for now anyway!

 

[Napster]

In my opinion, most of those things aren't on Maher's shoulders, but I would put money on the table that he is still losing sleep over it.

Same.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Hearing the new manager was in charge of a NL team that was literally the worst job in football, almost constant transfer embargoes, players not getting paid, club almost out of existence, points deduction, sometime only 12 players on a matchday yet went back to back seasons with a chance of the play offs and won manager of the year last year.....Still had to deal with an embargo up to the start of this season.
Good prospect I reckon.
Give him a good pre season and you never know.

Yup I see this viewpoint, absolutely but Kev has to find a way to get the team to perform and start playing more exciting football asap, starting Sat. Nobody (ok, very few) actually want him to fail. I'm sure COSU don't either .. but if things turn toxic quickly and the atmosphere worsens.....

Personally I think Kev should play 3 up front v Dagenham, let the team play with freedom and batter them 4-0. Or at least try. Will he? Hmm... well likely not, in his mind a 1-0 or a 0-0 will probably be a good result which yes, in isolation it would be ... but the paying punters are already starting to get fed up ..

@BoyWonder2 has already debated the fact that it could be the case, that KM will remain loyal to some players/this style of play til the end - which is entirely his prerogative. He has the job, not us lot after all.

 

[Maidstone Shrimper]

Which would have the biggest financial impact - sacking the Three Amigos and having to pay up their contracts or losing income from lower attendances? For this season I'd guess ditching the management team would be the most costly given the large number of season tickets sold. I'd vote for keeping Kev and Co in place for now. However if we haven't strengthened the squad by the end of the EFL Deadline Day 3rd February I'll be very concerned. I know we can sign players after that but most good business will be done by then or very soon after. Even if our performances on the pitch don't improve I would stick with Kev until near the end of the season (unless we plummet down the table) by which time hopefully COSU will have sussed out replacements - there will be a greater choice by then. If things stay the same the maths for next season and beyond will be very different.

 

[GBJ]

There's a lot coming from the Kev out band. ( myself included) I would like to hear more from the 47% that want him to stay. Is it what he's done for Southend or is it another reason.

For me the only reasons to replace Maher right now, is if;

1) We think there’s still a genuine chance of earning promotion this season.

2) We’ve actually got the money to recruit the necessary players

Frankly I don’t think there is, on either count.

Even if we made playoffs, we’re not - currently - strong enough to beat one of FGR/Barnet/York. Even Gateshead and Oldham would likely be too formidable.

As for the loyalty aspect, I just want what’s best for SUFC. I think Kev deserves his plaudits for what he’s done, and he has undoubtedly earned a fair crack at it, but not necessarily if it’s to the detriment of the club or its ambitions. There has to be balance there.

I’m personally content for Kev to keep the reigns until September at least. What’s the worst that can happen?

Personally I think Kev should play 3 up front v Dagenham, let the team play with freedom and batter them 4-0. Or at least try.

Agree with the 3 up top. I’ve often mentioned we have played our best football under Kev when we had 3 forwards.

However terms like “play with freedom” or “remove the handbrake” are often confusing. What do they mean exactly?

Southgate got battered with them last summer and since then they’ve become buzzwords used to describe slow, possession football.

But I’d like to know what a Husin or Miley would actually look like playing with freedom?

 

[Shrimp and two veg]

Yup I see this viewpoint, absolutely but Kev has to find a way to get the team to perform and start playing more exciting football asap, starting Sat. Nobody (ok, very few) actually want him to fail. I'm sure COSU don't either .. but if things turn toxic quickly and the atmosphere worsens.....

Personally I think Kev should play 3 up front v Dagenham, let the team play with freedom and batter them 4-0. Or at least try. Will he? Hmm... well likely not, in his mind a 1-0 or a 0-0 will probably be a good result which yes, in isolation it would be ... but the paying punters are already starting to get fed up ..

@BoyWonder2 has already debated the fact that it could be the case, that KM will remain loyal to some players/this style of play til the end - which is entirely his prerogative. He has the job, not us lot after all.

You oft mention style of play, i didn't see Spurs have 30 passes and scoring against Tamworth. We dismantled them. Same as Ebbsfleet. Away at Aldershot, werent a shot aimed at our net.
My point is, when we play badly then yes i'll agree at times it looks awful. When we play well, we look far superior.
You simply cannot say our style is one or the other !
Personally, just please get us out of this league, style is unimportant. Just like Phil Brown's L1 cloggers and Luggy's L2 enforcers.

 

[shrimperjon]

Yup I see this viewpoint, absolutely but Kev has to find a way to get the team to perform and start playing more exciting football asap, starting Sat. Nobody (ok, very few) actually want him to fail. I'm sure COSU don't either .. but if things turn toxic quickly and the atmosphere worsens.....

Personally I think Kev should play 3 up front v Dagenham, let the team play with freedom and batter them 4-0. Or at least try. Will he? Hmm... well likely not, in his mind a 1-0 or a 0-0 will probably be a good result which yes, in isolation it would be ... but the paying punters are already starting to get fed up ..

@BoyWonder2 has already debated the fact that it could be the case, that KM will remain loyal to some players/this style of play til the end - which is entirely his prerogative. He has the job, not us lot after all.

Great post. Im very much on the fence over Kev. I want him to succeed more than any other manager ive supported this past 44 years. What he has had to deal with is unprecedented and for the loyalty he and many of these players deserve our continued support. But as ive said on another thread he isnt currently getting the best out of this SQUAD of players. Some of that is caused by his blind loyalty to stick with the old guard from the past few seasons who frankly are not producing at the moment and is reluctance to give others and in particular Morton the chance. I totally accept that he has had arguably the hardest job in football the past few years but he should be getting better out of this squad than he is both player and tactically. As a comparison on the football front just see how Everton played on Sunday compared to other games this season. Same players, new manager, a few tweaks and looked a completely different team. Kev changed it against FGR and then started the 3 up front against Woking and up until the sending off we looked decent. He hasnt tried that again since

 

[GBJ]

Which would have the biggest financial impact - sacking the Three Amigos and having to pay up their contracts or losing income from lower attendances?

This argument of falling attendances is a fallacy to me.

People moan every year about not renewing, and yet you still see their names pop up in the post match threads the following season.

We have the same core fanbase as we did when we were on our way to the League One title a decade ago.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

This argument of falling attendances is a fallacy to me.

People moan every year about not renewing, and yet you still see their names pop up in the post match threads the following season.

We have the same core fanbase as we did when we were on our way to the League One title a decade ago.

I saw that iconic last game which took us to the League one title.Unfortunately,I don't expect to be witnessing anything simililar when I see our last home game this season in April.

 

[onceknownasrab]

For me the only reasons to replace Maher right now, is if;

1) We think there’s still a genuine chance of earning promotion this season.

2) We’ve actually got the money to recruit the necessary players

Frankly I don’t think there is, on either count.

Even if we made playoffs, we’re not - currently - strong enough to beat one of FGR/Barnet/York. Even Gateshead and Oldham would likely be too formidable.

As for the loyalty aspect, I just want what’s best for SUFC. I think Kev deserves his plaudits for what he’s done, and he has undoubtedly earned a fair crack at it, but not necessarily if it’s to the detriment of the club or its ambitions. There has to be balance there.

I’m personally content for Kev to keep the reigns until September at least. What’s the worst that can happen?

I think there is a third reason and that is doubting KM can take us further. Promotion is unlikely and a defeat in the play-offs would be likely, probably, but momentum is everything and if we can progress finishing this season well, it can continue next term. I want KM to do it but I cannot see it anymore. I want a change at the helm now to give the new guy a chance, and the time, to prepare for next season. I don't want to see anymore Maher signings and then he goes in the summer. The new man/woman needs to bring their own chosen players in to work with.

 

[blues exile]

I think there is a third reason and that is doubting KM can take us further. Promotion is unlikely and a defeat in the play-offs would be likely, probably, but momentum is everything and if we can progress finishing this season well, it can continue next term. I want KM to do it but I cannot see it anymore. I want a change at the helm now to give the new guy a chance, and the time, to prepare for next season. I don't want to see anymore Maher signings and then he goes in the summer. The new man/woman needs to bring their own chosen players in to work with.

Now would be the best time for change to give the new team time to properly assess the strengths and weaknesses of the squad they will inherit and to instil their own footballing philosophy. They can then offload some deadwood and look to new signings of their choice in plenty of time so that we hit the ground running from the word go next season

 

[GBJ]

I saw that iconic last game which took us to the League one title.Unfortunately,I don't expect to be witnessing anything simililar when I see our last home game this season in April.

Agreed, it’s very unlikely we’ll be winning league one this season amigo