Ron strikes gold again ......

[Rattus Norvegicus]

The Evening Echo said that Ron said a 22,000 football ground will be built when he was asked about the invisible dome (current location unknown).

For me, 22,000 = 4 sides but whether the current plan is that is all 4 sides being built at the same time or one at a time has not been commented on by Ron lately. It would be interesting to know.
Personally, I only need 1 seat so as long as that is built, I'll be okay. :thumbsup:

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

the revised planning application that is "under consideration" is for 3 sides. However the fourth side is clearly still there albeit shaded. The stadium a circle of "stands" rather than 4 seperate sides. Since I found the plans and the booklet it makes interesting reading. Still like most I'll believe it when it happens.

 

[RHB]

The Evening Echo said that Ron said a 22,000 football ground will be built when he was asked about the invisible dome (current location unknown).

For me, 22,000 = 4 sides but whether the current plan is that is all 4 sides being built at the same time or one at a time has not been commented on by Ron lately. It would be interesting to know.
Personally, I only need 1 seat so as long as that is built, I'll be okay. :thumbsup:

Provided it is in the three sides that are initially built, yes. If yours is in the greyed out bit you might have to pretend that you are sitting, or have one of those green fold up canvas seats that see so popular these days. It would not surprise me if Ron sold cheaper season tickets for the missing side.....every little bit helps:smile:

 

[Beefy]

I think Rayleigh boy is right about something which is that RM needed to get himself rid of a number of contracts which he had foolishly signed a year or two earlier. Certain players were deliberately not paid in the summer following relegation in order to force them to hand in their 14 day notice. But it never followed that he needed SUFC to be in the fourth tier for that to happen and it wasn't why the players weren't getting paid for chunks of the season before then.

The players were also not getting paid for chunks of the following season either. The difference then was that the manager and the 'journeymen' players (as they were often dubbed on here at the time) got on with their job and kept the club at a respectable position in the table whereas I'm sad to say that the previous manager and the squad full of SUFC heroes waved the white flag. Now I loved Tilly and a lot of the players we had back then but their attitude in adversity suggested that maybe a lot of them didn't love the club as much as the fans felt that they did. It was an employer, and an employer not paying wages so the players didn't put the effort in.

Either way the FIVE MILLION POUNDS is long gone. It was spent as part of Ron Martin's attempts to keep the club afloat in the absence of any other forms of credit following the drying up of the bank of HMRC. There's no conspiracy here, just basic maths will show you were that money went.

 

[Beefy]

We never received 5 million in one go, we never had 5 million sitting in our bank account. It really is that simple.

This is a key point. We never got given FIVE MILLION POUNDS. We couldn't pay a huge tax bill and so borrowed a seven figure sum to cover it. We then ran into other tax and wagebill issues and so borrowed again and again. Eventually Sainsburys agreed to formally provide a mechanism for loaning further funds but that it would be capped at FIVE MILLION POUNDS - the bulk of which had already been spent - effectively as an advance on the purchase of Roots Hall but legally secured against an unrelated plot of land.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Again, rather flawed as he tore the contracts up some 6 months or so after receiving and spending most of the money.

I have gone through the figures many times over the last 5 years, including the post you actually replied to and every time you raise the 5 million we received.

We did have liabilities and spent half of the money well before we were relegated.

Read this : http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8312868.Sainsbury_s_puts___5m_cap_on_its_Blues_bailout/

Here is a nice easy to read couple of paragraphs to highlight it

Evidence drawn up by the club to defend the administration application detailed how Sainsbury’s has agreed to lend a maximum of £5,071,711 to Roots Hall Limited, which owns the current ground and will in turn lend cash to the club.

However, the document showed nearly £3million of this had already been used since November (2009), clearing earlier tax debts. Another £240,000 is due to be spent by next week (Aug 2010) clearing another tax bill and the Charterhouse debt, meaning the club has about £1.8million left from Sainsbury’s to deal with debts and taxes over the next 12 months.



We didnt receive 5 million in one go, most of it was received well before we were relegated, we paid the tax bill in November 2009, per this article : http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/7986523.Blues_backed_by___3m_Sainsbury___s_guarantee/http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/7986523.Blues_backed_by___3m_Sainsbury___s_guarantee/

So Ron went to court over these debts just as a ruse? The justice system and HMRC submitted winding up orders just for Ron as part of his fabrication? . Hmmn...

You ask why HMRC didnt bury him, simple, because we paid the bills using the money we got. Its all there in black and white.

We never received 5 million in one go, we never had 5 million sitting in our bank account. It really is that simple.

So, to clarify, we have £5,000,000 in the bank.

Marvellous:winking:

 

[Jam_Man]

I think Rayleigh boy is right about something which is that RM needed to get himself rid of a number of contracts which he had foolishly signed a year or two earlier. Certain players were deliberately not paid in the summer following relegation in order to force them to hand in their 14 day notice. But it never followed that he needed SUFC to be in the fourth tier for that to happen and it wasn't why the players weren't getting paid for chunks of the season before then.

The players were also not getting paid for chunks of the following season either. The difference then was that the manager and the 'journeymen' players (as they were often dubbed on here at the time) got on with their job and kept the club at a respectable position in the table whereas I'm sad to say that the previous manager and the squad full of SUFC heroes waved the white flag. Now I loved Tilly and a lot of the players we had back then but their attitude in adversity suggested that maybe a lot of them didn't love the club as much as the fans felt that they did. It was an employer, and an employer not paying wages so the players didn't put the effort in.

Either way the FIVE MILLION POUNDS is long gone. It was spent as part of Ron Martin's attempts to keep the club afloat in the absence of any other forms of credit following the drying up of the bank of HMRC. There's no conspiracy here, just basic maths will show you were that money went.

The irony is that if Sainsbury pulling out mean they write of the debt it means we did in fact get 5 million of cash for free.

But just in case anyone starts putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 million in the bank as you say that money is long gone and all that would happen is our debt reduces substantially.

 

[Beefy]

Maybe but it is important to remember that we didn't get £5m cash from Sainsburys - another group company did. Even if the debt ultimately gets wiped off of the books of Roots Hall Ltd it doesn't necessarily follow that money loaned to Southend United Football Club Ltd will get written off. RM may want to keep it there for accounting purposes.

 

[Blue Yonder]

A quick look through this list...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)

and it looks like close to 50% of clubs outside the premiership have been in administration at some point (some more than once). Whatever you think of the way SUFC has been run we don't appear on the list. That is maybe thanks to the £5m and whatever security is attached to it. It will be some time before you can look back objectvely at what kind of job the current custodian of the club makes of the job. In the meantime we have a club, players, ground and a bit of hope and ambition and just maybe have navigated what have been perilous times for many clubs and businesses.

 

[Jam_Man]

the revised planning application that is "under consideration" is for 3 sides. However the fourth side is clearly still there albeit shaded. The stadium a circle of "stands" rather than 4 seperate sides. Since I found the plans and the booklet it makes interesting reading. Still like most I'll believe it when it happens.

The 3 sided plan was based on Sainsbury financing those three sides and agreed no doubt to appease them (fat good it did).

Who knows what the current plan is, or if there is even a plan.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

So, to clarify, we have £5,000,000 in the bank.

Marvellous:winking:

No because Ron has just bought an invisible dome for 1/2 million quid ........... :facepalm:

 

[onceknownasrab]

The 3 sided plan was based on Sainsbury financing those three sides and agreed no doubt to appease them (fat good it did).

Who knows what the current plan is, or if there is even a plan.

So did I miss the announcement from SUFC that Sainsbury's are no longer pursuing RH and have reneged on the arrangement to build FF or are we all guessing again?

Whatever the scenario, RM isno mug, and I am sure he has had Plan B, C D etc in readiness for any given situation. Its not as though he has not had plenty of time to consider them.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

So did I miss the announcement from SUFC that Sainsbury's are no longer pursuing RH and have reneged on the arrangement to build FF or are we all guessing again?

Whatever the scenario, RM isno mug, and I am sure he has had Plan B, C D etc in readiness for any given situation. Its not as though he has not had plenty of time to consider them.

Of course we are guessing - putting 2 and 1 together and getting 3 sides. :smile:

And it's not Ron's planning that is questionned ..... it is his delivery. :smiles:

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I've said before and i'll say it again. The lack of silence from our owner is disrespectful to the paying customers, shareholders and his own staff. Are we supposed to just wait for the day when it all falls together, or all falls apart...even if it is another 4-5 years time ? I guarantee if we weren't winning games at the moment, they'd be a massive outcry for more information !!

 

[fbm]

I've said before and i'll say it again. The lack of silence from our owner is disrespectful to the paying customers, shareholders and his own staff. Are we supposed to just wait for the day when it all falls together, or all falls apart...even if it is another 4-5 years time ? I guarantee if we weren't winning games at the moment, they'd be a massive outcry for more information !!

Or just the silence... a lack of silence implies loads of noise, which certainly hasn't been forthcoming.

You do have to also bear in mind that it may not be his news to tell. There are legal and confidentiality decisions before he can say anything at all and as far as I'm aware, it's Sainsbury's who need to spill the beans and make an announcement, not Ron.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

oops !! Lol. Well, you know what I mean...

 

[rlb999]

Pretty much every football club is built on debt. You can't lay that at Ron's door. It's a football problem, not a Ron problem.

And don't get hung up on the 3 sided ground thing, that's been covered before. It will NOT be Ron's intention to have 3 sides for long. It's the 4th side that will provide most of the income stream.

And the whole FF development relies on footfall. The biggest footfall will be thousands of people for SUFC home games. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is absolutely not in Ron's interests to let us flounder. For the benefit of the development he needs at least a semi successful club playing in the stadium. The retail park can't survive with an empty white elephant of a stadium just rotting away. These are all perceived fears rather than actual ones.

I'm not knocking Ron regarding the debt, although ours is high compared to other clubs. I think the end of the Tilson era was handled shockingly from a number of angles, but that apart he's managed the situation we're in as well as anyone who isn't a sugar daddy could. His managerial appointments are good too. My concern is that we're sitting on a time bomb - I take your point that many clubs are short of cash, but my concern is that our debt isn't really 'pay offable' unless we find a benefactor. I also don't buy all this "build the 4th stand later" nonsense - the Kassam Stadium opened in 2001 with similar promises.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Wow - is it 13 years since the new Oxford ground was opened. Sadly for Oxford they have not managed to climb back up the leagues and therefore have not needed a 4th side ..... but Huddersfield have risen back up to the 2nd division and added a fourth side along the way.

 

[Mick]

Wow - is it 13 years since the new Oxford ground was opened. Sadly for Oxford they have not managed to climb back up the leagues and therefore have not needed a 4th side ..... but Huddersfield have risen back up to the 2nd division and added a fourth side along the way.

... actually Huddersfield got there before they built the stand (obviously what Oxford are waiting for) and they started off with just the two stands with one still under construction.

 

[Jam_Man]

I've said before and i'll say it again. The lack of silence from our owner is disrespectful to the paying customers, shareholders and his own staff. Are we supposed to just wait for the day when it all falls together, or all falls apart...even if it is another 4-5 years time ? I guarantee if we weren't winning games at the moment, they'd be a massive outcry for more information !!

Yet when he gives information and then circumstances change he then gets called a liar.

I do think we are due some sort of update but I think he is waiting till he has firm information to share.