Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[kentblues]

While it seems the best option there are still issues, i hated the option at first and have come round to it,, but they still as i say have obstacles to sort and clear.

also obviously it is in Tranmere best interests not to be relegated, they would need to cut their cloth as much as us i believe. It is again one clubs take on their own perception to protect them selves.

but it as i say seems the best option but they need to resolve the issues and come up with what the costs are on TV and solidarity payments to be repaid if they do that

This is normally where the governing body would step in if there was one (EFL’s credibility is shot). Clubs will always be accused of acting in their own interests- you would expect the governing body (EFL) to uphold the rules. When that ceases to happen you have anarchy and rich lawyers- this is where we are now set.

I hope in future the EFL will learn the importance of leadership and integrity- the complete lack of both is palpable.

TV and solidarity payment issues are all red herrings- yes they are there and yes they will get sorted because neither the Prem or TV companies want to kill the game that is their money cow.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

This is normally where the governing body would step in if there was one (EFL’s credibility is shot). Clubs will always be accused of acting in their own interests- you would expect the governing body (EFL) to uphold the rules. When that ceases to happen you have anarchy and rich lawyers- this is where we are now set.

I hope in future the EFL will learn the importance of leadership and integrity- the complete lack of both is palpable.

TV and solidarity payment issues are all red herrings- yes they are there and yes they will get sorted because neither the Prem or TV companies want to kill the game that is their money cow.

Agree the EFL need to start leading.

Wouldnt say they are red herrings as Sky have asked for money back if the seasons are voided, that in itself impacts lower leagues less as they are not on as much, however the solidarity payments in part come from those, and the Prem have said those yearly payments (not the one of they sent but the EFL have kept so far) would also have to be adjusted, be that retrospectively or going forward to counter for some of that loss, the amount of which is unstated as yet.

So they are issues, i have never out in here stuff not mentioned.

I will caveat that being unless what has been shared in meetings is not the truth

 

[kentblues]

Agree the EFL need to start leading.

Wouldnt say they are red herrings as Sky have asked for money back if the seasons are voided, that in itself impacts lower leagues less as they are not on as much, however the solidarity payments in part come from those, and the Prem have said those yearly payments (not the one of they sent but the EFL have kept so far) would also have to be adjusted, be that retrospectively or going forward to counter for some of that loss, the amount of which is unstated as yet.

So they are issues, i have never out in here stuff not mentioned.

Sky will ask for money back- but it will be a negotiating point. They may get more games over the remainder of the contract, they may be offered an extension at no increase, any negotiated rebate might be spread over the remainder of the contract. I think the figures are Sky gets about £4bn Rev out of their football coverage and it costs them about £1.5bn. They will do nothing that damages the product. Similar process with sponsors- yes a cost is unavoidable and that needs to force a move to a sustainable model for clubs going forward- to the extent it makes this happen it is actually a much needed reset button.

Btw has the PFA shut down- they seem to have completely disappeared from the media and the debate?

 

[Rob1920]

Its just plain wrong that a bunch of owners / chairmen or whoever from the same division as us can play 'football God' and decide we're relegated without all the games being played, which is not realistically possible. If that's what gets forced through I hope Ron keeps a note of every one of the self-serving greedy b******s in a little book somewhere & at every opportunity in the future reminds them what they did, when they need our support for something. I can accept relegation on the pitch and obviously expected it, but not by a vote.

 

[Green Wizard]

Calls for EFL to show leadership and uphold the rules are missing the point, there are no rules to cover this situation, no matter what they do they will upset somebody. Can only try and get a consensus among clubs which is proving difficult. My feeling is that unless the clubs reach an agreement then voiding the season is the only option.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Aren't we a case in point, as Palios's wife stated? Haven't got the time to check back but if last season's League One had been halted at the same time and decided on PPG, wouldn't we have been relegated???

I haven't got time to do this either, but if anyone has I'd be really interested to know if the league was paused at the same time last season can we compare:

• What the positions were at that time
• Who would have gone up, made the play-offs and down under PPG
• Who would have gone up, made the play-offs and down under weighted-PPG
• Who actually went up, made the play-offs and went down.

It would be an interesting comparison - if it's roughly the same then it's an argument to say let's go for it - if there are, however, multiple differences then it's a good argument to void the season.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Today is the decision day for EFL to make, it’s be nice we can start planning tomorrow whatever division we be in.

 

[kentblues]

Calls for EFL to show leadership and uphold the rules are missing the point, there are no rules to cover this situation, no matter what they do they will upset somebody. Can only try and get a consensus among clubs which is proving difficult. My feeling is that unless the clubs reach an agreement then voiding the season is the only option.

The idea that the rules don't cover this situation is plain wrong- this is a fiction made up by clubs wishing the rules were different. The current rules are specific and define what happens or rather doesn't happen if the last fixture is not completed.

 

[kentblues]

From BBC

Possible salary caps for League One and League Two
League One and League Two clubs would have to operate under squad salary caps, according to proposals put forward by the English Football League.
Third-tier sides would be given a £2.5m ceiling to spend on salaries, while the sum would be £1.25m for League Two.
The plan, as reported in the Telegraph newspaper, would also see clubs given automatic points deductions if players are not paid on time.
The EFL hopes to have the cap in place for the 2020-21 season.

Two things are interesting- one is the final introduction from next season of a points deduction for non-payment of wages (something looked at by the EFL and the clubs and discarded beginning of this) but more interesting the wage cap.

My big question is that surely there must be a transition rule for clubs going from L1 to L2? Or will the PFA agree with all professional football contracts having relegation clauses where clubs can cancel players contracts part way through if relegated? With contracts running multiple years you can't just halve your playing wage bill over one close season?

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Sky will ask for money back- but it will be a negotiating point. They may get more games over the remainder of the contract, they may be offered an extension at no increase, any negotiated rebate might be spread over the remainder of the contract. I think the figures are Sky gets about £4bn Rev out of their football coverage and it costs them about £1.5bn. They will do nothing that damages the product. Similar process with sponsors- yes a cost is unavoidable and that needs to force a move to a sustainable model for clubs going forward- to the extent it makes this happen it is actually a much needed reset button.

Btw has the PFA shut down- they seem to have completely disappeared from the media and the debate?

PFA have stepped back a lot of flack went there way from a lot of sides.

Re sky yes they have given a starting point and it is being discussed, agree re sponsors.

I just wanted it clears i wasnt just banding that about but that it was out there.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

From BBC

Possible salary caps for League One and League Two
League One and League Two clubs would have to operate under squad salary caps, according to proposals put forward by the English Football League.
Third-tier sides would be given a £2.5m ceiling to spend on salaries, while the sum would be £1.25m for League Two.
The plan, as reported in the Telegraph newspaper, would also see clubs given automatic points deductions if players are not paid on time.
The EFL hopes to have the cap in place for the 2020-21 season.

Two things are interesting- one is the final introduction from next season of a points deduction for non-payment of wages (something looked at by the EFL and the clubs and discarded beginning of this) but more interesting the wage cap.

My big question is that surely there must be a transition rule for clubs going from L1 to L2? Or will the PFA agree with all professional football contracts having relegation clauses where clubs can cancel players contracts part way through if relegated? With contracts running multiple years you can't just halve your playing wage bill over one close season?

And from the championship to L1, Sunderland would never have made a 2.5 million cap

 

[Colchester and proud!]

The BBC now have something on their site about this, there is talk of 20 man senior squads with youth players being used to supplement it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52738597

 

[kentblues]

The BBC now have something on their site about this, there is talk of 20 man senior squads with youth players being used to supplement it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52738597

Oh how I would love this to be so. I fear there will be 2 types of clubs keen to stamp on this- 1. will be the big clubs who want to spend their way up rather than do it the long and sustainable way through academy, good management, good coaching 2. those clubs who currently have little or no academy structure (and will say they can't afford to put one in and to meet the homegrown rule).

Would be fantastic for us, and Ron I am sure will support in a flash. He has supported the youth and academy system brilliantly to be fair and we already have 10+ academy/u23 players capable of playing at and not disgracing themselves at L1 level. I am sure the plan already is to use the base of 10+ academy/u23 players (all of whom have extended or new contracts) as the base of the squad and then spreading the wage bill across a smaller number of senior players.

 

[eastwood shrimper]

There will be a lot of players without clubs if that happens.

 

[Kestrel]

The BBC now have something on their site about this, there is talk of 20 man senior squads with youth players being used to supplement it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52738597

So effectively you could have 20 players earning 125k per year

Remind me again what the big-time charlies earn in the Premier League.

If ever there was a time, and an opportunity, for everyone to come to their senses and see just how grotesquely paid Premier League players are, then this is it . . .

 

[Colchester and proud!]

Oh how I would love this to be so. I fear there will be 2 types of clubs keen to stamp on this- 1. will be the big clubs who want to spend their way up rather than do it the long and sustainable way through academy, good management, good coaching 2. those clubs who currently have little or no academy structure (and will say they can't afford to put one in and to meet the homegrown rule).

Would be fantastic for us, and Ron I am sure will support in a flash. He has supported the youth and academy system brilliantly to be fair and we already have 10+ academy/u23 players capable of playing at and not disgracing themselves at L1 level. I am sure the plan already is to use the base of 10+ academy/u23 players (all of whom have extended or new contracts) as the base of the squad and then spreading the wage bill across a smaller number of senior players.

Anything to save us smaller clubs, like you we have invested heavily in our youth set up, in fact there are only 2 cat 2 academies in league two, Crewe and Colchester. Here is the full list, it makes quite interesting reading. https://playerscout.co.uk/football-academies/football-academy-categories/

 

[Colchester and proud!]

So effectively you could have 20 players earning 125k per year

Remind me again what the big-time charlies earn in the Premier League.

If ever there was a time, and an opportunity, for everyone to come to their senses and see just how grotesquely paid Premier League players are, then this is it . . .

Yes the Premier league are only interested in themselves, look at that parachute payment thing as well, the other clubs in the championship are bankrupting themselves trying to match the ex Prem. teams.

 

[Colchester and proud!]

There will be a lot of players without clubs if that happens.

Robbie Cowling was predicting something like this, that is why very decent league 2 players like Nouble, Prosser, Jackson and Comley were told very early their contracts would not be renewed. It had nothing to do with their playing ability or attitude, and everything to do with what is to come financially.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

I haven't got time to do this either, but if anyone has I'd be really interested to know if the league was paused at the same time last season can we compare:

• What the positions were at that time
• Who would have gone up, made the play-offs and down under PPG
• Who would have gone up, made the play-offs and down under weighted-PPG
• Who actually went up, made the play-offs and went down.

It would be an interesting comparison - if it's roughly the same then it's an argument to say let's go for it - if there are, however, multiple differences then it's a good argument to void the season.

Taking the League One table at the same date that the season was suspended (13 March), the attached documents show the league table and then, using the weighted and unweighted formulas, points per game league tables.

It's almost the opposite scenario to this season; the top two were clear (as opposed to the bottom two being adrift this season), but the relegation scenario was incredibly close (as opposed to the race for 2nd and the play-offs this term).

Using the unweighted formula, Oxford, Rochdale and AFC Wimbledon would've been relegated instead of Plymouth, Scunthorpe and Walsall. Using the weighted home and away formula Rochdale, AFC Wimbedon and Shrewsbury would've been relegated instead of Scunthorpe, Playmouth and Walsall.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

if any of that were to be used, i think they need to look at a longer sample, so maybe 5 year period or 10 year period (maybe more) to get a better weighting (even then still a aguess as computers cant predict results)

would also need to take into account each teams home and away results etc as well as each team is different obviously

i would be quite shocked if L1 went any form of PPG route right now