Paris terrorist attacks

[Bielzibubz]

More people moving from one place to another makes the odds of their being a terrorist in their number more likely, and a doctor being in their number more likely, and a 20 goal a year centre forward, and a scientist, and a pick pocket, and a road sweeper, and a stripper, and a magician, and a guy that is double jointed in an amusing way, and a teacher and a nurse and and and and

Any large collection of people will include the good the bad and the ugly.

Mass migration isnt the problem, if they wanted to support isil they would have embraced them as they burnt their towns and villages, without the need to make a thousand mile perilous journey , just to blow themselves up.
The root cause of radicalisation in Europe which needs to be addressed is why are these people being radicalised. Thier families have travelled to Europe to get to a safe haven away from a western socety hating regime, only to find that upon arrival, they are mistrusted, abused, insulted and marginalised, just like they were told by the regime they were escaping. The fair treatment Governments give these refugees is being entirely undermined by the day to day reaction they get from the , so called normal, people of their adopted homeland.
They become disenfranchised and seek solace in their only comfort, their religion, which in some cases has been undermined by the regimes they left behind , and the radicalisation process begins.
Treat people like human beings and they will react accordingly, abuse them, or treat them as inferiors and a small percentage will kick back.

***, we're not talking about a doctor, scientist or footballer here. We're talking about a terrorist willing to blow himself up together with countless innocents and one willing to go on a rampage with a semi automatic weapon. I don't doubt for one second that for every member of ISIS that has migrated to Europe with the other many thousands there are going to be many doctors, nurses and scientists among them. What difference does that make? That doesn't alter the fact that the open European border policy adopted by many countries in the wake of those fleeing Syria and other places has had a direct impact on the loss of lives in Paris. That's a fact you just cannot justify on any level.

Firestorm. I care not for the why's, if's, but's and maybes as to why they became radicalized in the first place. They are and they're here. That's it. It's got fek all to do with families being marginalized or disfranchised. The one identified as one of the Paris terrorists has been identified as coming from Syria and through Greece with the specific intention of carrying out the atrocities attributed to him.

I asked this earlier and no one has answered so I'll ask again. is the open migration policy still a valid way forward now we know that at least one ISIS terrorist came via this route and went on to kill innocent Parisiennes. No doubt there are more waiting in the wings that came via the same route.

IS THE MIGRATION POLICY ADOPTED BY THE WEST STILL THE WAY FORWARD AND WAS IT A WISE MOVE IN THE FIRST PLACE CONSIDERING THE WARNING SIGNS WERE THERE FOR ALL TO SEE?

Simple question.

 

[mrsblue]

Mass migration isnt the problem, if they wanted to support isil they would have embraced them as they burnt their towns and villages, without the need to make a thousand mile perilous journey , just to blow themselves up.
The root cause of radicalisation in Europe which needs to be addressed is why are these people being radicalised. Thier families have travelled to Europe to get to a safe haven away from a western socety hating regime, only to find that upon arrival, they are mistrusted, abused, insulted and marginalised, just like they were told by the regime they were escaping. The fair treatment Governments give these refugees is being entirely undermined by the day to day reaction they get from the , so called normal, people of their adopted homeland.
They become disenfranchised and seek solace in their only comfort, their religion, which in some cases has been undermined by the regimes they left behind , and the radicalisation process begins.
Treat people like human beings and they will react accordingly, abuse them, or treat them as inferiors and a small percentage will kick back.

Uncontrolled mass migration is stark raving lunacy ,the authorities know nothing about the refugees who happen to be young fit males being the overwhelming majority,Germans are beginning to question the madness as their towns are being swamped.

Europes leaders have idly watched these people crossing the med which again is total madness,yet they did nothing to stem the tide.

Maybe just maybe 99.99% are indeed law abiding people,sadly I doubt it though.

I know I said I have done with this thread but hey what the hell.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

***, we're not talking about a doctor, scientist or footballer here. We're talking about a terrorist willing to blow himself up together with countless innocents and one willing to go on a rampage with a semi automatic weapon. I don't doubt for one second that for every member of ISIS that has migrated to Europe with the other many thousands there are going to be many doctors, nurses and scientists among them. What difference does that make? That doesn't alter the fact that the open European border policy adopted by many countries in the wake of those fleeing Syria and other places has had a direct impact on the loss of lives in Paris. That's a fact you just cannot justify on any level.

Firestorm. I care not for the why's, if's, but's and maybes as to why they became radicalized in the first place. They are and they're here. That's it. It's got fek all to do with families being marginalized or disfranchised. The one identified as one of the Paris terrorists has been identified as coming from Syria and through Greece with the specific intention of carrying out the atrocities attributed to him.

I asked this earlier and no one has answered so I'll ask again. is the open migration policy still a valid way forward now we know that at least one ISIS terrorist came via this route and went on to kill innocent Parisiennes. No doubt there are more waiting in the wings that came via the same route.

IS THE MIGRATION POLICY ADOPTED BY THE WEST STILL THE WAY FORWARD AND WAS IT A WISE MOVE IN THE FIRST PLACE CONSIDERING THE WARNING SIGNS WERE THERE FOR ALL TO SEE?

Simple question.

You seem to be missing the very simple point - movement of people of all types is travel. If you want to keep out any extra terrorists (as there will be some here already) you will have to keep out extra doctors and footballers and teachers and road sweepers as well because you wont know which of them are terrorists. And that doesn't mean banning immigration it means banning travel. If a terrorist is going to blow themselves up they will be happy to do that while pretending to come here for a weekend city break as much as they will be willing to do it pretending to come here for work or as a refugee.

Writing in capitals makes you seem angry. And you have no need to be angry with anyone on here as no one on here supports terrorists.

Yes migration is valid, we require certain skills is the first reason, the second is that capitalism feeds off the movement of people - without it our economy would shrink, and also because through accident of birth many people were born Syrian and through no fault of their own they have been caught in between a murdering dictatorship and murdering terrorists and those people need refuge.

Simple answer.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Just a small point to dip my toe in......yes a passport was found, but who's to say it wasn't planted to create this panic about refugees, or belonged to someone who was killed. An Eygptian one was also found to be one Waleed Abdel-Razzak, a football fan who was critically injured in the attack.

 

[mrsblue]

Just a small point to dip my toe in......yes a passport was found, but who's to say it wasn't planted to create this panic about refugees, or belonged to someone who was killed. An Eygptian one was also found to one Waleed Abdel-Razzak, a football fan who was critically injured in the attack.

Yes very strange how these terrorists including the 9/11 mob all carried their papers even though it was all Apparantly suicide missions.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

UKIP and Britain First were mocked and ridiculed for warning that ISIL would use the migrant crisis to smuggle terrorists into Europe. Now they've been proven right, and the self-righteous social media mob who said we should let more of them in are looking pretty stupid and now changing their profile pictures to French flags.

If the events in Paris spell the end for Schengen and freedom of movement then at least one good thing will have come out of this atrocity. We are at war, and the borders need to be closed.

 

[MK Shrimper]

UKIP and Britain First were mocked and ridiculed for warning that ISIL would use the migrant crisis to smuggle terrorists into Europe. Now they've been proven right, and the self-righteous social media mob who said we should let more of them in are looking pretty stupid and now changing their profile pictures to French flags.

If the events in Paris spell the end for Schengen and freedom of movement then at least one good thing will have come out of this atrocity. We are at war, and the borders need to be closed.

No they haven't. A passport has been found, no evidence that it was from one of the attackers.

 

[Firestorm]

***, we're not talking about a doctor, scientist or footballer here. We're talking about a terrorist willing to blow himself up together with countless innocents and one willing to go on a rampage with a semi automatic weapon. I don't doubt for one second that for every member of ISIS that has migrated to Europe with the other many thousands there are going to be many doctors, nurses and scientists among them. What difference does that make? That doesn't alter the fact that the open European border policy adopted by many countries in the wake of those fleeing Syria and other places has had a direct impact on the loss of lives in Paris. That's a fact you just cannot justify on any level.

Firestorm. I care not for the why's, if's, but's and maybes as to why they became radicalized in the first place. They are and they're here. That's it. It's got fek all to do with families being marginalized or disfranchised. The one identified as one of the Paris terrorists has been identified as coming from Syria and through Greece with the specific intention of carrying out the atrocities attributed to him.

I asked this earlier and no one has answered so I'll ask again. is the open migration policy still a valid way forward now we know that at least one ISIS terrorist came via this route and went on to kill innocent Parisiennes. No doubt there are more waiting in the wings that came via the same route.

IS THE MIGRATION POLICY ADOPTED BY THE WEST STILL THE WAY FORWARD AND WAS IT A WISE MOVE IN THE FIRST PLACE CONSIDERING THE WARNING SIGNS WERE THERE FOR ALL TO SEE?

Simple question.

Give the latest news from France , that the Egyptian passport belonged to a victim and the two Syrian passports were forged and planted , do you want to change anything in your post to reflect the facts ?

 

[Firestorm]

No they haven't. A passport has been found, no evidence that it was from one of the attackers.

The latest evidence is that it the two Syrian passports were from the attackers, also that they were false and planted. Probably for the effect of trying to turn Europe against Muslim refugees , thus reducing the amount fleeing ISIL, more to subjugate.
The Egytian passport belonged to a victim.

 

[mrsblue]

The latest evidence is that it the two Syrian passports were from the attackers, also that they were false and planted. Probably for the effect of trying to turn Europe against Muslim refugees , thus reducing the amount fleeing ISIL, more to subjugate.
The Egytian passport belonged to a victim.

Not according to sky news,the fake passports were used to gain entry with the refugees,Greek authorities have the dates and exact points of entry.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Anything you'd like to retract Firestorm?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...assport-body-suicide-bomber-Stade-France.html

Feel free to dismiss it out of hand seeing as it's the Daily Mail

***, so let me get this straight. It's the price of freedom and democracy if one lone or multiple ISIS migrants posing as migrants/refugees get into Europe and kill and maim innocents because we need the doctors, scientists etc?

 

[Pubey]

I might be being stupid, but how do passports survive an explosive detention?

Mine is falling to bits and it's reasonably new.

 

[mrsblue]

I might be being stupid, but how to passports survive an explosive detention?

Mine is falling to bits and it's reasonably new.

How does a passport escape from a jet plane travelling at 400mph which hits a building where the plane and people are vapourised yet the passport flutters down to earth still in mint condition.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Anything you'd like to retract Firestorm?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...assport-body-suicide-bomber-Stade-France.html

Feel free to dismiss it out of hand seeing as it's the Daily Mail

***, so let me get this straight. It's the price of freedom and democracy if one lone or multiple ISIS migrants posing as migrants/refugees get into Europe and kill and maim innocents because we need the doctors, scientists etc?

Banning all foreign travel would be completely unworkable. Allowing people to travel as long as it was only for short stays would not prevent terrorists from travelling so that would be pointless.

no one wants terrorists travelling to other countries but unfortunately your means won't achieve that.

 

[mrsblue]

Banning all foreign travel would be completely unworkable. Allowing people to travel as long as it was only for short stays would not prevent terrorists from travelling so that would be pointless.

no one wants terrorists travelling to other countries but unfortunately your means won't achieve that.

Strong borders across Europe and Britain need to be reinstated ASAP,fingerprint checks and suchlike need to be enforced en masse.Calais requires immediate action to arrest those still camping there,they can then be interviewed and verified.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Banning all foreign travel would be completely unworkable. Allowing people to travel as long as it was only for short stays would not prevent terrorists from travelling so that would be pointless.

no one wants terrorists travelling to other countries but unfortunately your means won't achieve that.

And once again you twist something to suit your argument. I said nothing about banning all travel by legitimate means. And by that I mean normal travel by people with passports/visas and go through the proper channels/controls. I specifically meant the mass migration/refugee issue from Syria etc. ISIS/ISIL have specifically stated that they will use this method of getting their Jihadists into Europe.

Now, with that in mind would you mind answering the last paragraph of my previous comment.

 

[Pubey]

Strong borders across Europe and Britain need to be reinstated ASAP,fingerprint checks and suchlike need to be enforced en masse.Calais requires immediate action to arrest those still camping there,they can then be interviewed and verified.

how does that stop terrorism?

 

[DTS]

how does that stop terrorism?

Don't think you can stop it but you can try and make it harder for them.

 

[Firestorm]

Anything you'd like to retract Firestorm?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...assport-body-suicide-bomber-Stade-France.html



Feel free to dismiss it out of hand seeing as it's the Daily Mail

***, so let me get this straight. It's the price of freedom and democracy if one lone or multiple ISIS migrants posing as migrants/refugees get into Europe and kill and maim innocents because we need the doctors, scientists etc?

That article was first published at 12.45, there has been some more news since then. The passports were forged and originated in Turkey. ISIL want people to believe the bombers were refugees, closing borders and preventing people fleeing ISIL is what they want.
An extremist right wing fundamentalist organisation is playing the European Right wing like a violin

 

[Pubey]

Don't think you can stop it but you can try and make it harder for them.

You also make it a lot harder for regular people who are fleeing countries where these attacks are a daily occurrence. You're also going to impact our economy which relies on migrants (like it or not).

I can't see why it'd be difficult for organised, intelligent and well financed terrorists to get into any country. By throwing up walls to innocent muslims and migrants IMO you're making things worse, especially if you continue to drop bombs out of 'self defence'.