Paris terrorist attacks

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

And once again you twist something to suit your argument. I said nothing about banning all travel by legitimate means. And by that I mean normal travel by people with passports/visas and go through the proper channels/controls. I specifically meant the mass migration/refugee issue from Syria etc. ISIS/ISIL have specifically stated that they will use this method of getting their Jihadists into Europe.

Now, with that in mind would you mind answering the last paragraph of my previous comment.

I believe I have answered your question a few times - there is no point in ending migration if the purpose is to stop terrorists travelling as they are generally not travelling as migrants and if they were they would travel as non-migrants. No twisting, I've been clear from the off - to stop terrorists travelling you need to ban travel not ban migration.

 

[mrsblue]

I believe I have answered your question a few times - there is no point in ending migration if the purpose is to stop terrorists travelling as they are generally not travelling as migrants and if they were they would travel as non-migrants. No twisting, I've been clear from the off - to stop terrorists travelling you need to ban travel not ban migration.

Those fleeing Syria are mainly economic migrants searching for a better life,they also are coming from other countries but posing as Syrian to gain access.Now how many in total "fleeing" 500,000 ,a million,2 million,they are all Muslim who have seen their family or friends killed by western bombs,how many are coming into Europe for revenge 50,100,1000,10000?

What if the entire Syrian population want to come to Europe,or Afghanistan populace,how about millions from Iraq,where does it all end?

 

[callan]

I believe I have answered your question a few times - there is no point in ending migration if the purpose is to stop terrorists travelling as they are generally not travelling as migrants and if they were they would travel as non-migrants. No twisting, I've been clear from the off - to stop terrorists travelling you need to ban travel not ban migration.

I think you keep on answering a question that hasn't been asked, no one is suggesting that migration is ended or that refugees not be given sanctuary.

What is being suggested is that freedom of movement and ineffective border controls make it easier for terrorists, tighten up the borders, and do things in a orderly manner and we wouldn't even be having this debate.

 

[Pubey]

Those fleeing Syria are mainly economic migrants searching for a better life,they also are coming from other countries but posing as Syrian to gain access.Now how many in total "fleeing" 500,000 ,a million,2 million,they are all Muslim who have seen their family or friends killed by western bombs,how many are coming into Europe for revenge 50,100,1000,10000?

What if the entire Syrian population want to come to Europe,or Afghanistan populace,how about millions from Iraq,where does it all end?

Seeing as over a quarter of a million Syrians have been killed during the civil war, who can blame them. If it was you or I I'm pretty sure we'd be doing the same.

 

[Pubey]

I think you keep on answering a question that hasn't been asked, no one is suggesting that migration is ended or that refugees not be given sanctuary.

What is being suggested is that freedom of movement and ineffective border controls make it easier for terrorists, tighten up the borders, and do things in a orderly manner and we wouldn't even be having this debate.

How does 'tightening up the borders' stop determined terrorists?

 

[mrsblue]

How does 'tightening up the borders' stop determined terrorists?

Just revealed one of the suspects was stopped at the French/Belgium border hours after the slaughter was incredibly let go by border guards.This guy is still at large.

 

[Pubey]

Just revealed one of the suspects was stopped at the French/Belgium border hours after the slaughter was incredibly let go by border guards.This guy is still at large.

revealed by who? suspected of what?

 

[callan]

How does 'tightening up the borders' stop determined terrorists?

Why do you think France closed their borders after the terrorist strikes????

Seemed like a good idea at the time? or it gave them more protection?, as they could check who was coming in and I guess as important who was getting out.

Your argument is akin to suggesting a boxer shouldn't wear a mouth guard as he could still get knocked out.

 

[Pubey]

Why do you think France closed their borders after the terrorist strikes????

Seemed like a good idea at the time? or it gave them more protection?, as they could check who was coming in and I guess as important who was getting out.

Your argument is akin to suggesting a boxer shouldn't wear a mouth guard as he could still get knocked out.

They needed to be seen to be doing something.

Your analogy shows that you're completely missing the point.

 

[callan]

They needed to be seen to be doing something.

Your analogy shows that you're completely missing the point.

You surely don;t believe that for a second.

The analogy is correct despite your protestations that I am missing the point, unless of course you are adamant that by increasing protection it makes no difference to the risk levels involved.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...lity-its-unable-to-control-them-a6735211.html

 

[Firestorm]

Its been on the BBC news, a brother of one of the terrorists was detained, then released. Thats nothing to do with tightening border controls , just ineffective policing

As hard as I have tried, I cant see how even a complete UK ban on immigrants would have prevented Brussels based terrorists attacking Paris

 

[Pubey]

You surely don;t believe that for a second.

The analogy is correct despite your protestations that I am missing the point, unless of course you are adamant that by increasing protection it makes no difference to the risk levels involved.

Well the media made a big deal about France 'closing its borders' but that wasn't what actually happened. The changes that French said were being made doesn't seem to have actually had a great deal of impact - they are still letting people in and out as normal.

I'll leave your analogy because it's stupidly simplistic.

Let's say that you make it really hard for people to come in:

- You may potentially reduce the risk of terrorists coming in. However I think that a well financed terrorist will find a way
- You will definitely impact our economy (migrant labour, tourism, trade etc)
- You will probably fuel terrorism and muslim hatred of the west, because it's supports their narrative that the west are 'a threat' to normal muslims.
- You isolate muslims et al in the UK, which is a way to fuel extremism.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Nice little present for the scum

https://twitter.com/iLove_Aviation/status/665676942809534465/photo/1

 

[Pubey]

Nice little present for the scum

https://twitter.com/iLove_Aviation/status/665676942809534465/photo/1

How many innocent civilians and children were killed, I wonder? How many maimed victims will end up driven to a life of extremism?

 

[callan]

Well the media made a big deal about France 'closing its borders' but that wasn't what actually happened. The changes that French said were being made doesn't seem to have actually had a great deal of impact - they are still letting people in and out as normal.

I'll leave your analogy because it's stupidly simplistic.

Let's say that you make it really hard for people to come in:

- You may potentially reduce the risk of terrorists coming in. However I think that a well financed terrorist will find a way
- You will definitely impact our economy (migrant labour, tourism, trade etc)
- You will probably fuel terrorism and muslim hatred of the west, because it's supports their narrative that the west are 'a threat' to normal muslims.
- You isolate muslims et al in the UK, which is a way to fuel extremism.

No lets not say we 'make it harder'.

Lets say we have effective border controls in place instead, with full and thorough checks, and a common policy on refugees / migrants etc.

As you point out in your post there is potential then to reduce risk, and why wouldn't you want that.

 

[rigsby]

]How many innocent civilians[/B] and children were killed, I wonder? How many maimed victims will end up driven to a life of extremism?

None.... it was a terrorist training camp.

 

[Pubey]

No lets not say we 'make it harder'.

Lets say we have effective border controls in place instead, with full and thorough checks, and a common policy on refugees / migrants etc.

As you point out in your post there is potential then to reduce risk, and why wouldn't you want that.

Because it has other implications that you continue to ignore.

The US has had strict border controls from well before 2001 but that didn't stop 19 terrorists from killing almost 3,000 people.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Those fleeing Syria are mainly economic migrants searching for a better life,they also are coming from other countries but posing as Syrian to gain access.Now how many in total "fleeing" 500,000 ,a million,2 million,they are all Muslim who have seen their family or friends killed by western bombs,how many are coming into Europe for revenge 50,100,1000,10000?

What if the entire Syrian population want to come to Europe,or Afghanistan populace,how about millions from Iraq,where does it all end?

This is a joke. Please tell me this is a joke? Explain to me the situation in Syria as you understand it and I'll fill in the gaping holes. Please tell me this is a joke and I can give you green rep and we can all laugh about it time and time again.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Let me ask the left leaning blinkered halfwits on here this. If ONE, just ONE Islamist jihadist were to get through our border controls and be let in to this country because of the migration situation and then goes on to murder and maim countless British innocents where would you stand on the migration issue then. Would that be acceptable because of the humanitarian good that's being done to the 99.9% of the others let in?

Don't **** about with a mealy mouthed political spin laden answer like some politician on Question Time. Just give it an honest up front answer.

This was the question

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That question is suggesting ending migration as far as I read it...