Paris terrorist attacks

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Some are homegrown, some are from Countries like Belgium and yes, some will come from wherever ISIS is, places like Syria. WHEN it happens again in London, most if not all will be homegrown. So where they are coming from, is not so much the thing to tackle, it's the ideology and the preaching. This can't be done without the non radical Muslims taking the lead. At the moment, they all seem to know of bad Imams or radical Muslims spreading this wrong message, but are letting it go on. It would also be nice, and the right thing to do, if they held a mass rally against radical Muslims. When hundreds took to the Streets of Luton to celebrate 9/11, it certainly didn't give the right message out.

 

[callan]

Please allow the rest of us time to mourn the dead in Paris and refrain from posting your warped,half baked political ideas here.

How on earth can whatever I post on internet forum interfere with your, or anyone else's mourning?

I know your self obsessed but really to suggest this, is remarkable even coming from you.

The post you highlighted of mine was in response to AAS, and the interpretation he had of a post by yet another member ...so that's (at least) 3 of us in discussion on the subject of having different border controls (some in favour, some not).

We are entitled to post whatever we like within the rules and guidelines of SZ and if you think that by trying to stifle debate on here or erode it by playing your own self interest will stop this....then as per usual you are mistaken and misguided.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Stay away from the forum if you need to mourn. Last time I checked, mourning didn't involve coming onto a football forum. You can't just play the passive aggressive card by trying to make people guilty about writing what they believe in.

People are dealing with things in their own way. Some want to mourn, some want answers as to how this has happened and how it can be prevented in the future, or at least reduced.

It isn't yet fully confirmed beyond doubt that the attackers arrived on the same boats as genuine refugees.....But, if this is proven then I think it is fair to say that this is one area we can control by not allowing them enter. Anyone who believes otherwise is condoning terrorism or at the very least putting innocent lives on the line by not closing off this one avenue of risk.

For sure determined terrorists will find a way through, but their means of reaching us might have a few extra obstacles so we can't just say "they're going to get us anyway, so let's just allow them all in"

Nor is it likely to be though it is possible that one or two of them used the refugee route via Geece.Until this is proven beyond doubt,which is by no means the case at present,I suggest you keep your vile prejuices to yourself.

 

[superblue24]

Nor is it likely to be though it is possible that one or two of them used the refugee route via Geece.Until this is proven beyond doubt,which is by no means the case at present,I suggest you keep your vile prejuices to yourself.

Actually, I've been told my special BBQ marinades are quite tasty....

 

[mrsblue]

Nor is it likely to be though it is possible that one or two of them used the refugee route via Geece.Until this is proven beyond doubt,which is by no means the case at present,I suggest you keep your vile prejuices to yourself.

What is exactly vile ?,the odds are stacked against your mad thinking,you suggest that none of the refugees will not have an ulterior motive,that is absurd on the numbers arriving into Europe.

 

[Crawliano]

Tightening up border control will make it far more difficult to smuggle in weapons at the very least.

Everything required is already in the possession of those maniacs capable of carrying out such atrocities. We have to put our faith in the authorities to protect us however they need to.

Not saying by any means don't tighten border controls, but if anyone thinks that closing the borders now is going to solve anything then at best, that's laughable.

 

[mrsblue]

Everything required is already in the possession of those maniacs capable of carrying out such atrocities. We have to put our faith in the authorities to protect us however they need to.

Not saying by any means don't tighten border controls, but if anyone thinks that closing the borders now is going to solve anything then at best, that's laughable.

We have drove to Belgium countless times,border control at Calais is at best a joke.Security have stopped us 3 times out of 30 visits,if we had bad intentions and were willing to take the risk,we could have smuggled a whole range of weaponry into Britain.

Imo every single car van lorry should be searched ,true the queues will be dreadful but that is the price we all have to pay.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How on earth can whatever I post on internet forum interfere with your, or anyone else's mourning?

I know your self obsessed but really to suggest this, is remarkable even coming from you.

The post you highlighted of mine was in response to AAS, and the interpretation he had of a post by yet another member ...so that's (at least) 3 of us in discussion on the subject of having different border controls (some in favour, some not).

We are entitled to post whatever we like within the rules and guidelines of SZ and if you think that by trying to stifle debate on here or erode it by playing your own self interest will stop this....then as per usual you are mistaken and misguided.

FWIW,I'm not in favour of border controls, though I recognise that in a state of emergency France has every right to suspend them.

What I resent is you (and others) peddling your anti-Schengen Kipper ideas as the magic bullet solution to what is a much more complicated problem than that.

 

[Crawliano]

We have drove to Belgium countless times,border control at Calais is at best a joke.Security have stopped us 3 times out of 30 visits,if we had bad intentions and were willing to take the risk,we could have smuggled a whole range of weaponry into Britain.

Imo every single car van lorry should be searched ,true the queues will be dreadful but that is the price we all have to pay.

These terrorist groups are well funded. If you shut the borders like that they will find (and finance) another way of getting whatever and whoever into whichever country they want.

But just looking at your example. Each car takes 5 minutes to check over completely by say 3 people while another checks passports... So you have 100 cars on a boat. That's nearly 35 man hours to board one boat. Considering these boats depart 45 minutes apart you'll need 17 bays with 4 people in each to get the boat filled in time to depart.

So that's customs employing 68 people to cover just the checking before putting in place any form of hierarchy to control the staff carrying out the checks. It won't happen. It's impossible and that's why they randomly select cars.

All you've just managed to achieve is bankrupting the ferry industry due to raised costs.

I'd also expect that a car full of Asian men is more likely to be stopped than a car carrying a family from Essex. Unfair or not, them's the breaks unfortunately. It's the world we live in right now.

 

[mrsblue]

These terrorist groups are well funded. If you shut the borders like that they will find (and finance) another way of getting whatever and whoever into whichever country they want.

But just looking at your example. Each car takes 5 minutes to check over completely by say 3 people while another checks passports... So you have 100 cars on a boat. That's nearly 35 man hours to board one boat. Considering these boats depart 45 minutes apart you'll need 17 bays with 4 people in each to get the boat filled in time to depart.

So that's customs employing 68 people to cover just the checking before putting in place any form of hierarchy to control the staff carrying out the checks. It won't happen. It's impossible and that's why they randomly select cars.

All you've just managed to achieve is bankrupting the ferry industry due to raised costs.

I'd also expect that a car full of Asian men is more likely to be stopped than a car carrying a family from Essex. Unfair or not, them's the breaks unfortunately. It's the world we live in right now.

On the contrary,they have X-ray machines which can scan lorries,why not build exactly the same machines for cars and vans!

One of the France attackers was white according to eye witnesses.

5 minutes is a long time to search the back of a van or car boot.k

 

[RHB]

Intriguing thought on Border Controls, especially within the UK entry points. I presume that everyone is happy to increase recruitment into the UK Border Agency and the Border Force at a time when reducing levels is the order of the day to combat the budget deficit. Doubt George Osborne would be very understanding there.

 

[callan]

FWIW,I'm not in favour of border controls, though I recognise that in a state of emergency France has every right to suspend them.

What I resent is you (and others) peddling your anti-Schengen Kipper ideas as the magic bullet solution to what is a much more complicated problem than that.

And what I resent is your continued self seeking posts citing your inability to mourn etc.

You now seem to have recovered sufficiently to have the debate you wanted stopped earlier.

 

[Crawliano]

On the contrary,they have X-ray machines which can scan lorries,why not build exactly the same machines for cars and vans!

One of the France attackers was white according to eye witnesses.

5 minutes is a long time to search the back of a van or car boot.k

When I was a yoot I had my car searched by the 5-0. It took them a good 10 minutes to go over every bit of my Fiesta. I doubt a scan of a boot is going to suffice. They'll want to search under seats, check for dislodged carpet that sort of thing. Much like the Old Bill did.

And I'm sure they're not going to just leave an assembled weapon in the boot, chances are it will be in pieces and scattered about so you will need eyes on it rather than a cursory glance.

Also - those machines are (or were when my mate was assisting with them in Stansted) £1 million each. Who pays for that?

 

[mrsblue]

When I was a yoot I had my car searched by the 5-0. It took them a good 10 minutes to go over every bit of my Fiesta. I doubt a scan of a boot is going to suffice. They'll want to search under seats, check for dislodged carpet that sort of thing. Much like the Old Bill did.

And I'm sure they're not going to just leave an assembled weapon in the boot, chances are it will be in pieces and scattered about so you will need eyes on it rather than a cursory glance.

Also - those machines are (or were when my mate was assisting with them in Stansted) £1 million each. Who pays for that?

We have been searched 3 times,they looked into the boot twice but a more thorough search lasting 2 minutes was carried out in Dover,all 3 events lasted no more than 3 minutes at most.

Million quid is nothing but loose change within Britain's economy ,even if it cost 50 million each year that is the price of attacking Arab States whilst promoting multi cultural society.

Intelligent led information hopefully will pinpoint those motors which require vigorous searching.

 

[superblue24]

FWIW,I'm not in favour of border controls, though I recognise that in a state of emergency France has every right to suspend them.

What I resent is you (and others) peddling your anti-Schengen Kipper ideas as the magic bullet solution to what is a much more complicated problem than that.

Yet you're more than happy to spend all of your days peddling your own nonsense on the Political threads when it suits your fancy or needs.....Total hypocrite.

At least closing the borders to immigrants/refugees would act as some kind of worthwhile step to keeping the people of our nations safe, it might put an extra hurdle which might buy invaluable time for intelligence to spot a terrorist plan evolving, even if it's an extra day. The issue is of course far deeper and needs to be addressed over generations, but what choice do we have in the short term? To carry on putting innocent lives at risk by letting anyone through the gates?

I don't know, maybe the solution is to up the whole Big Brother surveillance on a worldwide scale. After all, if you're innocent, what do you have to hide? People have abused the right to privacy, so maybe the only way to ensure peoples safety is to monitor everyone. Computers can be trained these days to flag suspicious activity, so in the long run it might not be all that expensive/man hour intensive to deploy.

 

[RHB]

We have been searched 3 times,they looked into the boot twice but a more thorough search lasting 2 minutes was carried out in Dover,all 3 events lasted no more than 3 minutes at most.

Million quid is nothing but loose change within Britain's economy ,even if it cost 50 million each year that is the price of attacking Arab States whilst promoting multi cultural society.


Intelligent led information hopefully will pinpoint those motors which require vigorous searching.

Just so as I'm clear, are you suggesting that we introduce x-ray scanning of cars at all ports and airports of entry in the UK?

As for the length of time it takes to search a car, it depends whether you merit the full monty or not. That can be intelligence led, or caused by something you do or say on the day. To beef up UK points of entry to levels that some on here want will not come cheap and would cause all sorts of delays and hold ups to the travelling public.

 

[mrsblue]

Just so as I'm clear, are you suggesting that we introduce x-ray scanning of cars at all ports and airports of entry in the UK?

As for the length of time it takes to search a car, it depends whether you merit the full monty or not. That can be intelligence led, or caused by something you do or say on the day. To beef up UK points of entry to levels that some on here want will not come cheap and would cause all sorts of delays and hold ups to the travelling public.

Would you rather prefer the terrorists to launch attacks here then,or what if they smuggled a dirty bomb into the country,maybe even rocket launchers to bring down aircraft as they take off or coming in to land.

As an old terrorist once said "your security has to be lucky every time,we just need luck once"

 

[mrsblue]

Discussion currently taking place regarding seaports to this country which are deemed as vulnerable.

 

[RHB]

Would you rather prefer the terrorists to launch attacks here then,or what if they smuggled a dirty bomb into the country,maybe even rocket launchers to bring down aircraft as they take off or coming in to land.

As an old terrorist once said "your security has to be lucky every time,we just need luck once"

Why on earth are you saying this? I was asking whether you wanted x-rays at all ports and airports. What has that to do with dirty bombs???

 

[mrsblue]

Why on earth are you saying this? I was asking whether you wanted x-rays at all ports and airports. What has that to do with dirty bombs???

Seaports are Our weakest link which need tight security,airports already have x ray so don't understand your point in bringing airports into the debate,espicially when I was clearly referring to seaports.