Nelson Mandela Dead

[MK Shrimper]

Are you trying to say that this didn't happen? Next you will say the Holocaust was a mis-reported bit of history

In a court of law, you have to prove the crime was committed, which you're not doing. Post some cast iron evidence that NM did the things you say him did rather just some anecdote that you heard down the pub.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The important thing about Mandela (as anyone who's read his autobiography The Long Walk to Freedom knows) is that he didn't hate.

That is his legacy to all of us.

(I'm proud that I was able to go to South Africa in 1996 -just two years after he became the first black President of South Africa -and see him present the winning trophy to the host nation in the African Nations Cup).

He was a great man.RIP.

I fully endorse this; read the book, research the facts, AND then ask yourself if you could have done and behaved as he did OR if you can name anyone who could have "filled his shoes". Great men/women are rare, perhaps Winston Churchilll, Paddy Mayne, Ghandi, & President Roosevelt were great: and Mr Mandela is IMO in the same iconic status and history will judge him to be a man of huge significance for positive change.

 

[Swiss Tony]

I think and i may as always be wrong but i do think his ex wife Winnie was the one who ordered the burning tyre gag.

Didn't a football team go through her as well?

 

[OldBlueLady]

Been having a discussion with my former father in law on the subject, and he recommended reading this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacre to have some understanding of what prompted the actions of Mandela and co.

From having a bit of a browse, it would certainly seem that it was Winnie and not he who was involved with the "necklacing".

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Been having a discussion with my former father in law on the subject, and he recommended reading this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacre to have some understanding of what prompted the actions of Mandela and co.

From having a bit of a browse, it would certainly seem that it was Winnie and not he who was involved with the "necklacing".

Who cares(apart from the burnee and their familys) what does wiki say about dirty winnie doing a fotty team?

 

[pickledseal]

Was always going to happen after his death as emotions run higher than normal. IMO he was a great man, but he wasn't perfect.

I think that is why people do see him as great... People like Gandhi and Mother Teresa were almost too perfect and so Mandela gives hope that actually you can change, seek forgiveness and help build a better world. Just reading through here, there is a real lack of facts about what 'bad things' he supposedly did. Some very good analogies, and some very poor ones too.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Even Mother Teresa refused to hand out condoms so she's hardly perfect. I wonder how many poor Indian women she condemned to death through HIV & AIDS.

 

[pickledseal]

Even Mother Teresa refused to hand out condoms so she's hardly perfect. I wonder how many poor Indian women she condemned to death through HIV & AIDS.

Oh and there's been accusations of financial mismanagement in her religious order too - people love to find the dirt.

The condom one is always interesting... It was very interesting when I was in Ethiopia. Even non religious charities were trying to focus on one of the root causes of the spread of HIV, and that was promiscuity. Education about 'best sexual practice' was very important and actually just dishing out condoms is potentially dangerous as it doesn't effect the cultural mindset of sleeping around or 'bed hopping' as I heard it referred to! People are more likely to do that if they believe there are no consequences.

Anyway back to MT, a reluctance to give out condoms is a choice of conscience. Potentially she could have saved lives, but there is no guarantee of it, I'm not well enough informed of the HIV situation in India and her role in it.

 

[Firestorm]

Who cares(apart from the burnee and their familys) what does wiki say about dirty winnie doing a fotty team?

Mandela FC was the nickname given to Winnies security .
They were the ones who carried out the murder of Stompie Mckenzie on WMs orders
I think the affairs were generally with higher ranking ANC officers

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Mandela FC was the nickname given to Winnies security .
They were the ones who carried out the murder of Stompie Mckenzie on WMs orders
I think the affairs were generally with higher ranking ANC officers

The name Stompe rings a bell,good work you should be a journo Garry.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Oh and there's been accusations of financial mismanagement in her religious order too - people love to find the dirt.

The condom one is always interesting... It was very interesting when I was in Ethiopia. Even non religious charities were trying to focus on one of the root causes of the spread of HIV, and that was promiscuity. Education about 'best sexual practice' was very important and actually just dishing out condoms is potentially dangerous as it doesn't effect the cultural mindset of sleeping around or 'bed hopping' as I heard it referred to! People are more likely to do that if they believe there are no consequences.

Anyway back to MT, a reluctance to give out condoms is a choice of conscience. Potentially she could have saved lives, but there is no guarantee of it, I'm not well enough informed of the HIV situation in India and her role in it.

3rd highest in the world.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The anti-Mandela feeling expressed by quite a few on here seems to be at odds with the view coming from white South Africans, both in the media and the expats I know.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The anti-Mandela feeling expressed by quite a few on here seems to be at odds with the view coming from white South Africans, both in the media and the expats I know.

Not suprising considering what could have happened there (and I suppose still might).

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Not suprising considering what could have happened there (and I suppose still might).

what has gone largely unreported is the rape and murder of white farmers and their families in South Africa on a larger scale of what has happened and is still happening in Zimbabwe.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

what has gone largely unreported is the rape and murder of white farmers and their families in South Africa on a larger scale of what has happened and is still happening in Zimbabwe.

Feel free to post up details as this sounds a bit like hearsay and this thread is littered with untruths that people have assumed are facts for years.

 

[Firestorm]

Feel free to post up details as this sounds a bit like hearsay and this thread is littered with untruths that people have assumed are facts for years.

Found this...

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-10-10-are-sa-whites-really-being-killed-like-flies

 

[MK Shrimper]

what has gone largely unreported is the rape and murder of white farmers and their families in South Africa on a larger scale of what has happened and is still happening in Zimbabwe.

I don't doubt that it's going on, but how is it anything to do with NM? He could have ordered ethnic cleansing when he became President, but chose the reconciliation path instead.

 

[steveo]

I don't doubt that it's going on, but how is it anything to do with NM? He could have ordered ethnic cleansing when he became President, but chose the reconciliation path instead.

But the country is a total mess. This from Channel 4

Just after Nelson Mandela left office, UN crime statistics marked South Africa as the worst in the world for murder and assault - of the countries where statistics are gathered. 74 gun murders per 100,000 population and a further 51 murders without firearms.

So what did he achieve? I worked with a black South African lady in the 80's. She was adamant that if the blacks ever took over in South Africa, it would be a disaster. Maybe the transition was too quick. There are plenty of articles around the internet that say black south Africans felt safer under a white government.

 

[MK Shrimper]

But the country is a total mess. This from Channel 4


So what did he achieve? I worked with a black South African lady in the 80's. She was adamant that if the blacks ever took over in South Africa, it would be a disaster. Maybe the transition was too quick. There are plenty of articles around the internet that say black south Africans felt safer under a white government.

Written by who? Eugene Terreblanche?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

But the country is a total mess. This from Channel 4


So what did he achieve? I worked with a black South African lady in the 80's. She was adamant that if the blacks ever took over in South Africa, it would be a disaster. Maybe the transition was too quick. There are plenty of articles around the internet that say black south Africans felt safer under a white government.

Russia was a safer country under communism in terms of reported crime but that would not be a reason to deny them democracy. South Africa is a brutal country with massive poverty and an extremely poor quality of life for the majority of people. The only thing that has changed is that it is no longer a racist state where a minority of people had the right to vote. That is a massive improvement but the country has been ****ed for decades and it still is.