Nelson Mandela Dead

[chapperzUK]

Yes he helped his nation recruit soldiers to fight in the war against the Nazi's. What a ******* he was.

Wouldn't that still make him indirectly responsible for the death of people?

 

[londonblue]

Agreed on Mugabe.

So as I see it, NM all be it indirectly is responsible for multiple deaths and therefore even if he goes on to discover the key to internal life for my mind he is never worthy of the praise we have seen of him. Did some great things yes, did some terrible things yes.

Wonder how we would feel if it was one of our families that had been killed by the ANC, would you be so willing to let bygones be bygones. Or one of the 70,000 white farmers that I read had been killed since the ANC came into power. Not blaming NM for the deaths directly but I still think he had blood on his hands.

Had Bin Laden been caught and then become an advocate of peace does that later in life make him an ok chap? Do we ignore the 4000 people that died in 9/11 - after all Bin Laden didn't directly plant the bomb?

I remember a few "what ifs" that you've come up with before, and when I've asked you the same kind of question I've not had a response. So, this time I will ignore you, and ask you. What if you were a black person living in SA under apartheid. How would you feel seeing your family rounded up and killed for sport?

As for Bin Laden, I think someone has answered that point very well on a previous post. I'm not sure why you're making it again. (Although it could be that you've not read it yet - I've done that before, and quite recently too!)

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Feel free to post up details as this sounds a bit like hearsay and this thread is littered with untruths that people have assumed are facts for years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22554709

Plenty of stuff if you want to look but thought a article from John Simpson might be credible.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Found this...

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-10-10-are-sa-whites-really-being-killed-like-flies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22554709
I found this

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22554709

Plenty of stuff if you want to look but thought a article from John Simpson might be credible.

You can well imagine that the white working class would struggle to find work once they were no longer given preferential treatment because there are millions of cheap black labourers.
it gives a comparison between murders of white farmers and the police. It doesn't give a comparison between white farmers and any other group. Murder rates for everyone in South Africa is high - it is a country of few opportunities and lots of violence - the whites aren't immune to that any more - not the working class ones at least.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22554709
I found this

There's certainly a professional "brain drain" in SA.

I was told by a few people, (back in 96) that,as a teacher, I could walk into a job there.

 

[DTS]

Where did you get that load of nonsense from?

Not sure as it was 4000. Still a lot of dead but nowhere near my initial claim. Was on the phone at the time is my defence.

 

[DTS]

I remember a few "what ifs" that you've come up with before, and when I've asked you the same kind of question I've not had a response. So, this time I will ignore you, and ask you. What if you were a black person living in SA under apartheid. How would you feel seeing your family rounded up and killed for sport?

As for Bin Laden, I think someone has answered that point very well on a previous post. I'm not sure why you're making it again. (Although it could be that you've not read it yet - I've done that before, and quite recently too!)

Had an organisation killed a member of my family regardless of if I was black or White I would be unlikely to see the head of that organisation as a man of peace. Not sure what else I can say.....

As I said all along all I want from the press I balance. We have barely seen that.

 

[Uncle Leo]

There's certainly a professional "brain drain" in SA.

I was told by a few people, (back in 96) that,as a teacher, I could walk into a job there.

Even you? That country is ****ed.

:winking:

 

[Beefy]

He fought an oppressive regime that enforced apartheid. That is not the same as someone like Gerry Addams who just wants Ireland back, the people of which were not being oppressed by the British regime.

That's slightly simplistic and plenty of people - including those for and against both organisations - have made comparisons between the ANC and the IRA. A lot of people in Northern Ireland would argue that they were being oppressed by the British regime.

The point is that things are rarely as simple as 'good vs evil'. The dividing line between terrorist and freedom fighter is seldom more than an issue of perspective.

 

[Pubey]

That's slightly simplistic and plenty of people - including those for and against both organisations - have made comparisons between the ANC and the IRA. A lot of people in Northern Ireland would argue that they were being oppressed by the British regime.

The point is that things are rarely as simple as 'good vs evil'. The dividing line between terrorist and freedom fighter is seldom more than an issue of perspective.

Another issue is that there's a generation now whose 'experience' of terrorism is nutcases blowing up underground trains and skyscrapers in the name of allah. Terrorism for more tangible political means is not something that's really been experienced since the mid 90s.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Plenty of world leaders at Mandela's wake that have the blood of innocents on their hands, some of whom are still in power.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

You can well imagine that the white working class would struggle to find work once they were no longer given preferential treatment because there are millions of cheap black labourers.
it gives a comparison between murders of white farmers and the police. It doesn't give a comparison between white farmers and any other group. Murder rates for everyone in South Africa is high - it is a country of few opportunities and lots of violence - the whites aren't immune to that any more - not the working class ones at least.

believe you called my post "heresay" and challenged for facts - merely obliged. upto you how you wish to interpitate the article.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

believe you called my post "heresay" and challenged for facts - merely obliged. upto you how you wish to interpitate the article.

That's cool, and I read it and came to my own conclusions so we are aaaaaall good. Link appreciated.

 

[pickledseal]

And so basically all the chat is now about whether or not it was appropriate for Obama to be taking 'selfies'. Good stuff.

 

[Jam_Man]

That's slightly simplistic and plenty of people - including those for and against both organisations - have made comparisons between the ANC and the IRA. A lot of people in Northern Ireland would argue that they were being oppressed by the British regime.

The point is that things are rarely as simple as 'good vs evil'. The dividing line between terrorist and freedom fighter is seldom more than an issue of perspective.

I think the levels of oppression over the last 50 years of the Irish and black South Africans were rather different though...

 

[TrueBlue]

Look the dirty terrorist **** is dead now let's all be happy

 

[MK Shrimper]

Look the dirty terrorist **** is dead now let's all be happy

Did you not see your hero John Major admit that the Tory party were wrong over Mandela?

 

[TrueBlue]

Did you not see your hero John Major admit that the Tory party were wrong over Mandela?

And I guess what ever party you follow you always agree with 110% of the time???

My opinion not john ******* majors

 

[MK Shrimper]

And I guess what ever party you follow you always agree with 110% of the time???

My opinion not john ******* majors

**REMOVED**

Ooo! Get you.

Your opinion based on.....?