Mohsni rested for Accy game

[South Bank Hank]

How is copying and pasting word for word selective quoting by the way? The second line that you highlight is a simple parody of CB's statement.

So lets get this straight SBH law states that borderline racist statements are ok but selective quoting (or in this case a parody) is not cool. :stunned:

Sigh, yes... if you wish to incorrectly summarise my previous statement and my tongue-in-cheek comment about your posting style to make your point then what the hell... You've quoted Rusty word for word in your signature and completely reversed his point so why not do it to mine too.

Can we please get back on topic now that I've expressly okay'd borderline racism?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

So lets get this straight SBH law states that borderline racist statements are ok

The original post referred to Islam. Is Islam a race? Not when I last looked. That's bordering on slander, incidentally.

The original post did, however, exhibit religious intolerance - which this site in no way condones (*). Equally, however, it does provoke an interesting debate as to how a player's religious beliefs ought to impact on their ability to play football. Does, for instance, the fact that games take place on a Saturday afternoon explain why there has never been an orthodox Jewish player of any great fame?

(*However, if we banned everyone on sight for saying things that we didn't condone, then pretty soon we'd have no one posting on here.)

 

[Azzurri Per Sempre]

Being a footballer is a profession just like any other job. We have employment laws in this country which aim to rid the workplace of discrimination. Also, signing players (or not signing, in this case) based on their religious views is discriminatory and therefore against the law! We should respect a person's religious beliefs as that is their right given by the Government of this country and regulated through legislation, such as the Human Rights Act...

Sorry to sound like a dick btw, just wanted to get that point across.

 

[leeblue]

shame he not playing, if barker out too i will probably put accy down for a win on the coupon this weekend, the OS states barker having fitness test today....Any news? (sorry to mention football instead of islam or racism)

 

[MK Shrimper]

Plus side of this Ramadan thing is that Mohsni can play on Christmas Day should there be a fixture backlog.

 

[Fish]

Being a footballer is a profession just like any other job. We have employment laws in this country which aim to rid the workplace of discrimination. Also, signing players (or not signing, in this case) based on their religious views is discriminatory and therefore against the law! We should respect a person's religious beliefs as that is their right given by the Government of this country and regulated through legislation, such as the Human Rights Act...

Sorry to sound like a dick btw, just wanted to get that point across.

Interesting point that I think we need HR lawyers to clear up! I'm sure if we weer to not sign a player in Mohsni's situation it would be because he couldn't play for a chunk of the year, not because he's Muslim. However that would only really wash in an 'all things being equal' scenario, and, whatever you think about Mohsni, they certainly broke the mould after they made him!

Personally I think Bil's great entertainment value and on balance (as well as on grass) adds far more to the team than we lose because of him not playing in daylight during Ramadan. Incidentally, it might actually be Sturrock's idea/preference to not play him during the day during Ramadan, as Bil's not the most level headed of players on a good day, but add to that being ratty cos he's ravenous by 3pm, and that's probably a risk not worth taking.

All that said, there is a point at which you simply couldn't hire someone for a job because of the practices of their religious beliefs. I'm thinking along the lines of a butcher or abattoir where you'd need people to be able to handle raw pork and beef, and that would cancel out some Jews, Muslims and Hindi. But in Bil's case, I don't think the club could demonstrate that his chosen activities impinge upon his ability to do his job enough to warrant not hiring him on that basis alone.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Interesting point that I think we need HR lawyers to clear up! I'm sure if we weer to not sign a player in Mohsni's situation it would be because he couldn't play for a chunk of the year, not because he's Muslim. However that would only really wash in an 'all things being equal' scenario, and, whatever you think about Mohsni, they certainly broke the mould after they made him!

Personally I think Bil's great entertainment value and on balance (as well as on grass) adds far more to the team than we lose because of him not playing in daylight during Ramadan. Incidentally, it might actually be Sturrock's idea/preference to not play him during the day during Ramadan, as Bil's not the most level headed of players on a good day, but add to that being ratty cos he's ravenous by 3pm, and that's probably a risk not worth taking.

All that said, there is a point at which you simply couldn't hire someone for a job because of the practices of their religious beliefs. I'm thinking along the lines of a butcher or abattoir where you'd need people to be able to handle raw pork and beef, and that would cancel out some Jews, Muslims and Hindi. But in Bil's case, I don't think the club could demonstrate that his chosen activities impinge upon his ability to do his job enough to warrant not hiring him on that basis alone.

I don't know the law, but should we decide that actually we didn't want a player as their religious beliefs meant they were not able to perform their duties, then surely we would be within our rights to dismiss them/not employ them. I.e. fasting through Ramadam means that a player is too weak to play football, the primary task he's contracted to do. There's no way as a business we could alter working conditions to accomadate him (I'm thinking the turban helmets the police issued to SWAT team members).

There is an argument that if you want to work in a foreign country then you should adhere to their guidelines/habits/traditions/belief, as it's your conscious decision to move to a country that observes a different religion. It's akin to inviting yourself round a Muslim families house for dinner and then making them say grace.

Either way, I'm disappointed we're losing Mohsni, but I certainly don't wish to bomb him out as a result, but then neither do I believe he has the divine right to walk back into the first XI once Ramadam is over, especially should the player that has stepped into his spot play well.

 

[Sleaford Shrimper]

Going back to the 1960s, I can remember a footballer called Mark Lazarus who played for Leyton Orient, QPR, Crystal Palace and Brentford. He was a practising Jew who was left out of the team at his own request on the Jewish Day of Atonement, so football clubs respecting a player's religious practices is nothing new. Incidentally, Mark Lazarus was born in Stepney, London.

 

[Bluepen]

Cant we simply just trust PS decision for all the right reasons after all he works with him on a day to day basis
He is the Boss so lets just trust his judgement and see how it works out .

 

[Razam]

Plenty of Muslim players fast during Ramadan (Toure Brothers, Erik Abidal, Freddie Kanoute, Momo Sissoko & I think Nasri, off the top of my head) and there are plenty who don't, and the clubs seem to be happy to accomodate. There was an article a few years ago about Freddie Kanoute, wait a min...

http://www.goal.com/en/news/596/exc...-i-can-keep-fasting-in-ramadan-even-when-i-am

This Year last day of fasting for Ramdan will be 29th or 30th Aug (dependant on the moon sighting). Next year Ramadan will likely be mid July-mid Aug.

if and its a big if he is being rested for religious reasons, thats truly shocking, whats the point of signing a player that cannot play during ramadan??

What's the point of signing players who will be out for a month during the African Nations Cup - however most of the Premier League managers do.... I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure they are better positioned to make that decision than you or me.

you ppl on here that are building him up to be a cult, shame on you, I think he is a major liability his play is erratic, and if the rm wants to practise his beliefs, then find a islamic country where you can ply your trade
but dont come to our glorious country

RM?? Ron Martin?? Didn't know he was Muslim!! :omg:

 

[kentblues]

Of course there is no reason why you cant tell him that face to face in the car park is there?????

Can I watch please?......

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

So after 5 pages of debate do we actually know why he's being "rested" ?

Once again communication could have been better from the club so we can understand the reasoning behind it. I think it's a fair expectation for your paying customers to at least have a short explanation. I agree with what someone said about PS having the right to make these decisions but why not just tell us why.

 

[kentblues]

I don't know the law, but should we decide that actually we didn't want a player as their religious beliefs meant they were not able to perform their duties, then surely we would be within our rights to dismiss them/not employ them. I.e. fasting through Ramadam means that a player is too weak to play football, the primary task he's contracted to do. There's no way as a business we could alter working conditions to accomadate him (I'm thinking the turban helmets the police issued to SWAT team members).

There is an argument that if you want to work in a foreign country then you should adhere to their guidelines/habits/traditions/belief, as it's your conscious decision to move to a country that observes a different religion. It's akin to inviting yourself round a Muslim families house for dinner and then making them say grace.

Either way, I'm disappointed we're losing Mohsni, but I certainly don't wish to bomb him out as a result, but then neither do I believe he has the divine right to walk back into the first XI once Ramadam is over, especially should the player that has stepped into his spot play well.

An employer cannot discriminate on grounds of religion whatever clever (or more usually otherwise) excuse they dream up. End of.

More importantly Bilel would play at the drop of a hat- he is NOT making himself unavailable and is IS AVAILABLE for selection for all games (unless injured) as far as I can see. If PS didn't feel he had alternatives he would play him- PS feels he has so thats fine too. Note in contrast I believe Rory Fallon wont play on Sundays (and he is a Christian!)

 

[jamesmut2000]

So after 5 pages of debate do we actually know why he's being "rested" ?

Once again communication could have been better from the club so we can understand the reasoning behind it. I think it's a fair expectation for your paying customers to at least have a short explanation. I agree with what someone said about PS having the right to make these decisions but why not just tell us why.

PS does give his explanation on the OS which I'm sure was linked to earlier in this thread.

 

[Perth Bambi]

I believe there is an international rugby player for Scotland who is a fairly highly rated player, but he refuses to play on Sundays as it is the Sabbath. What is the world coming to, silly player with his Christian beliefs affecting his international sporting career. And in a Christian country and everything.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

So after 5 pages of debate do we actually know why he's being "rested" ?

Yes, the opening post of this thread links to the Official Site which explains why.

Once again communication could have been better from the club so we can understand the reasoning behind it. I think it's a fair expectation for your paying customers to at least have a short explanation. I agree with what someone said about PS having the right to make these decisions but why not just tell us why.

I think it's a fair expectation that someone would take the time to check the Official Site before complaining about a lack of communication. This story was posted on the Official Site and the Echo reported it. What more are the club expected to do: a personal telegram hand-delivered? A town-cryer to shout it out to fans who are unable to read?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I believe their is an international rugby player for Scotland who is a fairly highly rated player

I think you might be on your own with this one.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Yes, the opening post of this thread links to the Official Site which explains why.



I think it's a fair expectation that someone would take the time to check the Official Site before complaining about a lack of communication. This story was posted on the Official Site and the Echo reported it. What more are the club expected to do: a personal telegram hand-delivered? A town-cryer to shout it out to fans who are unable to read?

Are you sure that statement hasn't been added to today ?

When I clicked on it this morning it was NOT a detailed explanation, it just said ;

Southend United's Bilel Mohsni will be rested for Saturday's trip to Accrington Stanley.

Paul Sturrock feels that three games in seven days is too much for the Frenchman. "I just feel that playing three times insuch a short space of time is too much at the moment and it won't benefit the team.

So yes I did read it earlier. I wouldn't have asked the friggin question otherwise would I.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

if and its a big if he is being rested for religious reasons, thats truly shocking, whats the point of signing a player that cannot play during ramadan?? you ppl on here that are building him up to be a cult, shame on you, I think he is a major liability his play is erratic, and if the rm wants to practise his beliefs, then find a islamic country where you can ply your trade
but dont come to our glorious country

Speaking personally.watching Bilel play was one of the few bright spots, in watching SUFC play last season.IMO, he's the best player we've had on our books since Freddy signed.Absolutely inspirational.I'd agree that his play can be erratic but he's a rough diamond, who will eventually play at a much higher level.
I was in the West stand for last season's last home game and I can honestly say I've never seen better rapport between any SU player and the crowd in the post match celebrations, going back to the early 60's.
(As far as Ramadan is concerned,Moshni's religion doesn't stop him playing at all -that's purely PS's decision- (and a good one IMO).Incidentally,I was on the WSC magazine's trip to South Africa for the African Nations Cup Finals in '96, where we stayed at the same hotels as many of the players.IIRC, having to eat their meals after midnight, didn't stop Rudi Kroll's Egypt team from reaching the final of the competition.True they lost but SA were worthy winners).

 

[rlb999]

If people didn't say slightly controversial things then this board would be so boring. No need for a ban for simply projecting a view point. Even though I don't agree with it. Imagine if we all got on, how sickening that would be!

Well said. I disagree with CBs view though.