Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[South Bank Hank]

Um....it's popular and will cost relatively little if it's done "line by line" ie when the current franchises run down.

Can you name me one other advanced nation in Europe which has a privatised railway system?

Genuinely no offence intended but do you think policies should be based on:

1) Doing things because they are popular?
2) Doing things because other advanced nations have done it?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Genuinely no offence intended but do you think policies should be based on:

1) Doing things because they are popular?
2) Doing things because other advanced nations have done it?

To be fair popular has a big element of democracy to it. And other nations having done something and it working means we can learn from that.

Companies make money from the railways so why can't the government? There are so many ways that the railways could be run better and pricing be made fairer but the companies running the lines know that most passengers are there out of necessity not choice so the accountability is massively reduced. A government would have to run it well or lose votes.

Not renewing franchises as they expire is the sensible way to take rail back.

 

[South Bank Hank]

To be fair popular has a big element of democracy to it. And other nations having done something and it working means we can learn from that.

Companies make money from the railways so why can't the government? There are so many ways that the railways could be run better and pricing be made fairer but the companies running the lines know that most passengers are there out of necessity not choice so the accountability is massively reduced. A government would have to run it well or lose votes.

Not renewing franchises as they expire is the sensible way to take rail back.

No one said anything about it 'working', only that other advanced nations might be doing it. I couldn't tell you whether it was working for those other nations or not. Seems a very circular argument.

The key thing for me is whether something is run efficiently and effectively, and I'm not convinced Government is better at doing that than a specialist. If the specialist can do it better, the only real issue has always been where the private sector takes excessive profits and that's the part a government should be able to exercise control.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Out of interest why wouldn't Charles sing the national anthem? I noticed that both William and Harry did at the RWC Opening ceremony, and I'm pretty sure they didn't sing "God save our Grand Mother"!

I believe that the Queen gave instructions that none of her immediate family were to sing. Prince Philip doesn't, Prince Charles doesn't.....have to admit I am not sure about her other three children. I would imagine the grandchildren do not come under that same direction.

 

[londonblue]

I believe that the Queen gave instructions that none of her immediate family were to sing. Prince Philip doesn't, Prince Charles doesn't.....have to admit I am not sure about her other three children. I would imagine the grandchildren do not come under that same direction.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Genuinely no offence intended but do you think policies should be based on:

1) Doing things because they are popular?
2) Doing things because other advanced nations have done it?

No offence taken.

*** is quite right in that "popular has a big element of democracy in it," especially if services improve and prices fall.

The fact that no other advanced industrial nation in Europe (that I'm aware of) has privatised their rail net work indicates that this probably wasn't a good idea in the first place.Rather it was ideologicaly motivated.

Certainly the SNCF in France and RENFE in Spain-to name two European rail networks that I'm pretty familiar with- provide a much better service than their UK counterparts.

I was interested to see Hilary Benn defend Labour's nationalisation plans on the Sunday Politics.

He pointed out that The Tories had been "ideological" in their privatisation of the railways under Major.

In addition he argued that the recently re-privatised East Coast line had shown that publicly-owned rail could work well.

He also rightly said that Britain needed an "integrated transport system" without passengers having to buy different tickets for different lines.

Just imagine the chaos of having to buy different tickets for the different underground lines on the London tube!

 

[South Bank Hank]

No offence taken.

*** is quite right in that "popular has a big element of democracy in it," especially if services improve and prices fall.

The fact that no other advanced industrial nation in Europe (that I'm aware of) has privatised their rail net work indicates that this probably wasn't a good idea in the first place.Rather it was ideologicaly motivated.

Certainly the SNCF in France and RENFE in Spain-to name two European rail networks that I'm pretty familiar with- provide a much better service than their UK counterparts.

I was interested to see Hilary Benn defend Labour's nationalisation plans on the Sunday Politics.

He pointed out that The Tories had been "ideological" in their privatisation of the railways under Major.

In addition he argued that the recently re-privatised East Coast line had shown that publicly-owned rail could work well.

He also rightly said that Britain needed an "integrated transport system" without passengers having to buy different tickets for different lines.

Just imagine the chaos of having to buy different tickets for the different underground lines on the London tube!

I definitely take the point on a democratic argument to popular policies, although it doesn't necessarily help when hard decisions need to be taken, but I'm not swayed by any of the other arguments.

Inaction on the part of other industrialised nations doesn't prove that it's a good or bad idea, any more than action does - only the results of the action/inaction. Your view on your local networks may be right (may be not) but it's anecdotal. Apart from that, you're just restating what you said before/above.

Nor should Hillary Benn's argument be read as fact - it's just his opinion.

I'd still be more interested in seeing facts, but we're already way off topic.

 

[RHB]

I started a thread on full privatisation of Network Rail in Homers Bar. Maybe this current exchange would sit better there? My post #920 had a link to an article giving some financial facts. I'm not sure what facts you would want but they may help a bit.

 

[davew]

All essential services should be in the public hands, Health, transport, energy, communicants, water, armed forces, police, fire service and others (i Know I have missed some) that are essential (you actually can not do without). I know there are Gov bodies that are suppose to oversee, e.g. OFFCOM, OFFWATT, i have dealt with them and they not great (put it politely

 

[davew]

Party's can basically say what they want when they are not in power, How many times have we seen elected Governments
not keeping their promises to us

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Most of those would have gone to Davey Cam so no big deal for me

Sure about that?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sure about that?

Yes.........

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Yes.........

so the surge in UKIP votes north of watford were all from Tories were they even though the labour vote was down - you were hammered in the GE don't forget.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

so the surge in UKIP votes north of watford were all from Tories were they even though the labour vote was down - you were hammered in the GE don't forget.

More UKIP votes came from the Tories than Labour.
Labour's vote was actually up on the previous election but they didn't pick up enough of the deserting Liberal votes and they lost too many votes to the SNP. UKIP had minimal impact on Labour, the problems for Labour were elsewhere.
This has all been covered in this thread so I'd have to trot out the same replies I already have and at the end we'd still disagree!

 

[steveo]

The row erupted as the Labour leader faced fresh scrutiny over his record as a peace activist and opponent of security laws. A dossier shows that Mr Corbyn has voted against 13 critical pieces of anti-terrorism legislation, dating back to the Eighties when mainland Britain was attacked by the IRA.

Senior Whitehall sources have said a number of Islamist extremists now in jail for terrorism offences, would still be free if Mr Corbyn had had his way.

Sounds like Barnas sort of politician. We will be peaceful while others bomb the hell out of us.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

so the surge in UKIP votes north of watford were all from Tories were they even though the labour vote was down - you were hammered in the GE don't forget.

Actually, Labour's vote went up slightly in May (about 1.3% IIRC) compared to the 2010 election.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Sounds like Barnas sort of politician. We will be peaceful while others bomb the hell out of us.

Actually JC voted with the Government about 85% of the time in the 30 years or so he was a back bench MP (while Labour was in office).

 

[Pubey]

Well, I doubt Corbyn has ****ed a dead pig.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Well, I doubt Corbyn has ****ed a dead pig.

Ermmmmm. Googled Daily Mail and got nothing on this so assumed it's what it looks like - a spoof. But a quick check on my Twitter and Owen Jones is commenting on it so I guess this front page exists. Beats the Express finding out one of Corbyn's relatives ran a workhouse 200 years ago!

Charlie Brooker wrote this as a satire a couple of years ago - how did he know?

 

[Pubey]

Ermmmmm. Googled Daily Mail and got nothing on this so assumed it's what it looks like - a spoof. But a quick check on my Twitter and Owen Jones is commenting on it so I guess this front page exists. Beats the Express finding out one of Corbyn's relatives ran a workhouse 200 years ago!

Charlie Brooker wrote this as a satire a couple of years ago - how did he know?

It's tomorrow's front page apparently.

Yeah, Brooker has just tweeted that it appears Black Mirror is now a documentary.