Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Lord Football]

You shoul really contribute to this forum more often. By the way, in your trade union days did you ever come across Joe Cook. He also stood in Castle Point at the last GE.

Thanks. But no I shouldn't. It makes me angry, and I try not to do angry anymore. I only posted the above because I needed to get it off my chest in a place that isn't Facebook.

I don't know Joe Cook, but that doesn't mean I've never met him. I was lucky (I think that's the word) to be able to get many events in support of workers and the cause across the region, so I've probably met him.

 

[mrsblue]

I am a member of the Labour Party. I rallied against it for years because it never really stood for what I wanted it to be. But, after the last election I concluded that the only credible option to the Tories were Labour. In my previous life on the Trade Union circuit, I got to know John McDonnell personally, and I've had dealings with Jeremy Corbyn. I was delighted when Corbyn got elected as leader. Now, at long last, we have someone with the right politics and principles to properly oppose the Tories.

And since then, well, its been a disaster.

I question the motives of those like Hilary Benn, who sought to undermine the leader of the Opposition at the very moment an Opposition was leader. I'd further question why supposed smart politicians tried to organise a coup when they knew Corbyn has the support of a vast majority of the Party Membership. That was clear when they ran a "no one" in opposition. That action alone was akin to stand in front of the electorate with your trousers round you ankles. And then its not helped when you see local party names saying they can't support him via social media. Just how that will go down when they go door knocking at election time is anyone's guess.

Corbyn has a constant fight with the media. Ok, we knew that would happen. They did much the same to Michael Foot. If you ask those who oppose Corbyn to list the things he stands for what they disagree with they struggle with an answer.

But, then, Corbyn doesn't do himself any favours. There appears to be very little desire to talk about matters at hand, and he kind of bumbles his way around interviews and doesn't inspire me much, let alone those he needs to convince. And I am not sure he has any concept of leadership skills. It was crazy not to allow a free vote on Article 50, and by not doing so, he's lost a couple more shadow cabinet members. I am not sure how many are left to fill those spaces.

And in the media storm that surrounds him, the Tories pretty get away with whatever they want. Even today, the news centred on Corbyn at PMQs rather than the cluster**** that is the White Paper on Brexit.

The difficulty is that no sensible debate about leadership can take place in the current, toxic, environment. And as such, we can all "look forward" to another dose of Tory mismanagement.

If Labour want to be the next Government, it wont be with Corbyn as leader. There. I said it. Now I feel dirty. But I needed to get it off my chest.

Corbyn is a professional protester not a leader,those who voted for him as leader summed up the public feeling toward the LP,which is out of touch and out of date....they are incapable of governing.

The Tories have an easy ride with JC,he lacks those fighting qualities to drive home his message,has he actually got a message.

Its not just him though,some of his sidekicks are gaffe prone and speak utter nonsense .

Only 2 people I can think of who are able to steer the party away from the rocks are Benn or Miliband,that's Dave by the way.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I am a member of the Labour Party. I rallied against it for years because it never really stood for what I wanted it to be. But, after the last election I concluded that the only credible option to the Tories were Labour. In my previous life on the Trade Union circuit, I got to know John McDonnell personally, and I've had dealings with Jeremy Corbyn. I was delighted when Corbyn got elected as leader. Now, at long last, we have someone with the right politics and principles to properly oppose the Tories.

And since then, well, its been a disaster.

I question the motives of those like Hilary Benn, who sought to undermine the leader of the Opposition at the very moment an Opposition was leader. I'd further question why supposed smart politicians tried to organise a coup when they knew Corbyn has the support of a vast majority of the Party Membership. That was clear when they ran a "no one" in opposition. That action alone was akin to stand in front of the electorate with your trousers round you ankles. And then its not helped when you see local party names saying they can't support him via social media. Just how that will go down when they go door knocking at election time is anyone's guess.

Corbyn has a constant fight with the media. Ok, we knew that would happen. They did much the same to Michael Foot. If you ask those who oppose Corbyn to list the things he stands for what they disagree with they struggle with an answer.

But, then, Corbyn doesn't do himself any favours. There appears to be very little desire to talk about matters at hand, and he kind of bumbles his way around interviews and doesn't inspire me much, let alone those he needs to convince. And I am not sure he has any concept of leadership skills. It was crazy not to allow a free vote on Article 50, and by not doing so, he's lost a couple more shadow cabinet members. I am not sure how many are left to fill those spaces.

And in the media storm that surrounds him, the Tories pretty get away with whatever they want. Even today, the news centred on Corbyn at PMQs rather than the cluster**** that is the White Paper on Brexit.

The difficulty is that no sensible debate about leadership can take place in the current, toxic, environment. And as such, we can all "look forward" to another dose of Tory mismanagement.

If Labour want to be the next Government, it wont be with Corbyn as leader. There. I said it. Now I feel dirty. But I needed to get it off my chest.

The thing is it doesn't have to be this way. As you say if you ask Labour members who are anti Corbyn which of his policies they disagree with they struggle to pick any. If you ask anyone why the Labour membership has tripled in size they will all know the answer is Corbyn. Makes no sense at all not to take this two facts and build around them. If you have a leader with a convincing mandate from the membership and that membership grows to an all time high then you use that you don't reject it. You identify the weak points and put things in place to strengthen there. You rally around.

I don't buy the notion that he is a weak orator - he 'wins' PMQs 90% of the time, he is generally calm and clear in one on one interviews and he can pull and hold the interest of a crowd. The fact that the majority of people won't get to see any of that is....unfortunate, but if the PLP were interested in making this known then the impact of media bias could be diminished.


The Tories have May - someone voted into that job by no one, someone who avoids questions at all costs, someone who will try to avoid Parliamentary democracy at all costs, someone who U turns on most policy announcements, someone who has a long record of incompetence, someone who voted Remain but is taking the narrow Out vote as a cue to promote the most extreme interpretation of what that vote could mean. And the party rally behind her. She is literally just anyone, doesn't matter who, and they get behind her because they put party before anything else. If Labour were a bit more like that things would be very different.

 

[londonblue]

The thing is it doesn't have to be this way. As you say if you ask Labour members who are anti Corbyn which of his policies they disagree with they struggle to pick any. If you ask anyone why the Labour membership has tripled in size they will all know the answer is Corbyn. Makes no sense at all not to take this two facts and build around them. If you have a leader with a convincing mandate from the membership and that membership grows to an all time high then you use that you don't reject it. You identify the weak points and put things in place to strengthen there. You rally around.

I don't buy the notion that he is a weak orator - he 'wins' PMQs 90% of the time, he is generally calm and clear in one on one interviews and he can pull and hold the interest of a crowd. The fact that the majority of people won't get to see any of that is....unfortunate, but if the PLP were interested in making this known then the impact of media bias could be diminished.


The Tories have May - someone voted into that job by no one, someone who avoids questions at all costs, someone who will try to avoid Parliamentary democracy at all costs, someone who U turns on most policy announcements, someone who has a long record of incompetence, someone who voted Remain but is taking the narrow Out vote as a cue to promote the most extreme interpretation of what that vote could mean. And the party rally behind her. She is literally just anyone, doesn't matter who, and they get behind her because they put party before anything else. If Labour were a bit more like that things would be very different.

I don't. I've made my feelings very clear, except I'm not a member...but it's the wider population you need to convince, not party members.

Moreover, policies are only one aspect. Credibility, gravitas and basic leadership skills are at least as important, and he has none of that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I don't. I've made my feelings very clear, except I'm not a member...but it's the wider population you need to convince, not party members.

Moreover, policies are only one aspect. Credibility, gravitas and basic leadership skills are at least as important, and he has none of that.

I'm not a party member, either (these days).Though unlike you,I would certainly vote for the Labour party under JC's leadership,if given the chance.

He has displayed gravitas and credibility throughout his political life.The difficult decision to impose a three line whip on the Labour party over the triggering of Article 50,would also indicate,to me at least,that he has "leadership skills" too.

 

[londonblue]

I'm not a party member, either (these days).Though unlike you,I would certainly vote for the Labour party under JC's leadership,if given the chance.

He has displayed gravitas and credibility throughout his political life.The difficult decision to impose a three line whip on the Labour party over the triggering of Article 50,would also indicate,to me at least,that he has "leadership skills" too.

I couldn't disagree more. For example, how exactly is trying to force people to do what you want (i.e. a three line whip) actually displaying any kind of leadership? Trying to persuade people round to your way of thinking, and succeeding, shows leadership. Using a three line whip, i.e. forcing people who still disagree with you to do what you want, is not leadership, especially when you completely ignored it as a back-bencher. That just smacks of hypocrisy and undermines your credibility totally.

A quote from Churchill springs to mind:

“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don't. I've made my feelings very clear, except I'm not a member...but it's the wider population you need to convince, not party members.

Moreover, policies are only one aspect. Credibility, gravitas and basic leadership skills are at least as important, and he has none of that.

plenty of people don't agree with his policies who are not members but I was specifically talking about members.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I couldn't disagree more. For example, how exactly is trying to force people to do what you want (i.e. a three line whip) actually displaying any kind of leadership? Trying to persuade people round to your way of thinking, and succeeding, shows leadership. Using a three line whip, i.e. forcing people who still disagree with you to do what you want, is not leadership, especially when you completely ignored it as a back-bencher. That just smacks of hypocrisy and undermines your credibility totally.

A quote from Churchill springs to mind:

“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”

I'm sure the Tories and LibDems had a 3 line whip too, just not seen as newsworthy for some reason. Also 80% of Labour MPs backed the leadership's lead on A50 - the same % as LibDems, the media have been all over Labour's 20% rebels but LibDems 20% rebels are not seen as newsworthy for some reason....

 

[superblue24]

Still not seeing any seismic shift to Labour.....

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/02/02/voting-intention-conservatives-40-labour-26/

Could be waiting a long time me thinks....Or Labours departure from far left politics.....whichever is the soonest....

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Still not seeing any seismic shift to Labour.....

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/02/02/voting-intention-conservatives-40-labour-26/

Could be waiting a long time me thinks....Or Labours departure from far left politics.....whichever is the soonest....

if only a thousand people vote at the next GE then it looks like a Tory win. If more than a thousand turn out then anything can happen

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-loyalty-vote-article-50

Will JC sack Diane? :unsure:

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-loyalty-vote-article-50

Will JC sack Diane? :unsure:

He should do. Even by current Labour standards she is one of the most incompetent politicians around, how she's still so high-profile I don't know (well, I have an idea...). Every time she goes on TV it's a car-crash. She just talks utter rubbish.

 

[callan]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-loyalty-vote-article-50

Will JC sack Diane? :unsure:

I think he should keep her...as she is quite comical with her frequent gaffes.
She is the perfect sidekick for Emily thornberry and they would for sure earn a good wage as a double act on the comedy circuit.

 

[rigsby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-loyalty-vote-article-50

Will JC sack Diane? :unsure:

I always think you can judge a man by the company he keeps...... Think of Nile Ranger.

JC is best mates with Diane Abbott......Enough said.

 

[mrsblue]

I think he should keep her...as she is quite comical with her frequent gaffes.
She is the perfect sidekick for Emily thornberry and they would for sure earn a good wage as a double act on the comedy circuit.

They could be called "dumb and dumber"...brilliant stage act !

 

[EastStandBlue]

Sky reporting Corbyn will impose a three-line whip at the third reading, so that's me done. My constituency (Lewisham) voted 70% in favour of remaining so I just can't get on board with a leader who would enforce local MPs to undermine their constituent's wishes in such a throwabout fashion.

It's the latest in a long line of debacles that show, to me at least, that no matter how good Corbyn's intentions are he's just not fit to lead the party.

 

[Bielzibubz]

The flip side of that is you have Labour MP's considering voting against the party and it's leader despite the majority of their constituents voting leave, especially in the North. A conscience vote they call it. Yeah right. Since when has any politician had one of those.

 

[rigsby]

The flip side of that is you have Labour MP's considering voting against the party and it's leader despite the majority of their constituents voting leave, especially in the North. A conscience vote they call it. Yeah right. Since when has any politician had one of those.

Also known as a death of the Labour party vote.

 

[mrsblue]

Sky reporting Corbyn will impose a three-line whip at the third reading, so that's me done. My constituency (Lewisham) voted 70% in favour of remaining so I just can't get on board with a leader who would enforce local MPs to undermine their constituent's wishes in such a throwabout fashion.

It's the latest in a long line of debacles that show, to me at least, that no matter how good Corbyn's intentions are he's just not fit to lead the party.

Blimey another deserter jumping off the sinking ship:hilarious:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sky reporting Corbyn will impose a three-line whip at the third reading, so that's me done. My constituency (Lewisham) voted 70% in favour of remaining so I just can't get on board with a leader who would enforce local MPs to undermine their constituent's wishes in such a throwabout fashion.

It's the latest in a long line of debacles that show, to me at least, that no matter how good Corbyn's intentions are he's just not fit to lead the party.

they don't have to vote with the whip, but as a party we have to say 'we respect the result of the referendum'. I'm sure everyone expects the representative of Lewisham to ignore the whip, but the bigger picture is there is a need for the whip to be in place. Carry on as normal IMO