Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Tangled up in Blue]

It's the same link. That poll was from the middle of this month.

Yes I saw that.But I'm sure Andrew Neil talked about a 12 point lead last week.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

This article passed under the radar nearly two weeks ago. Events since that time may make it even more relevant today..................a realignment of the left to oppose Brexit?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...jeremy-corbyn-labour-must-split-a7530961.html

 

[Gremlin]

Yes I saw that.But I'm sure Andrew Neil talked about a 12 point lead last week.

At least the poll was only a week old when he talked about it.

 

[rigsby]

A tenner says they won't.Loser pays SZ.Interested?

(It's not unusual for Labour to hold onto safe seats).:smiles:

I could get better odds at the bookies but as its for the zone why not......Your on.

 

[londonblue]

Polls are arguably pointless, the sample is generally a thousand people, anything other than 'which party will you vote for' often involves leading questions, and in the last GE, the EU referendum and in US polls have failed to predict the results.

In Stoke for example we are told there is a danger of a UKIP win but rather than looking at polls if you look at Nuttall's previous votes achieved in UK general elections for UKIP in Bootle 4.1% in 2005, in 6.1% 2010 and 10.9% in 2015. He is now party leader and UKIP may be thinking this is their last push at achieving something in Parliament before their likely bankruptcy - so that makes a difference, but still his votes achieved in his hometown must be a better indication of his potential now that small sample polls.

No they haven't. At the last GE the polls that most accurately mirrored actual voting (rightly or wrongly) were the ones about leader popularity. That is why it is so important that labour drop Corduroy, who is still the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I could get better odds at the bookies but as its for the zone why not......Your on.

Good man.:thumbsup:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No they haven't. At the last GE the polls that most accurately mirrored actual voting (rightly or wrongly) were the ones about leader popularity. That is why it is so important that labour drop Corduroy, who is still the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

the only polls that predicted the GE winning party result was the exit polls by which point people have already voted. If you search all the polls a try to pick out just one that was accurate it's odd to say the polls were right on the leaders - that leader had quit within a year!

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Good man.:thumbsup:

I've seen some ***** written on here in my time but this is a ludicrous statement!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I've seen some ***** written on here in my time but this is a ludicrous statement!

Now,now ***.Don't be so relentlessly on message all the time.You know perfectly well what I meant.Lighten up.:winking:

Just be happy that Rigsby will be donating a tenner to SZ in Feb. because he lost a bet on Labour winning Stoke.

 

[Stan33]

Are you surprised ?

 

[rigsby]

Now,now ***.Don't be so relentlessly on message all the time.You know perfectly well what I meant.Lighten up.:winking:

Just be happy that Rigsby will be donating a tenner to SZ in Feb. because he lost a bet on Labour winning Stoke.

*** is just upset that I correctly predicted promotion via Wembley in 2014/15, Brexit and Trump all without having to listen to any polls.

I don't need any poll to tell me Labour will lose in Stoke....You will be shocked at the size of the defeat and it will finish Corbyn.

Apparently UKIP were delighted with the news on Thursday that Dianne Abbott was appearing on QT.......She did of course another fantastic job of reminding anyone North of Watford what ever colour they are, Labour has deserted them.

 

[londonblue]

the only polls that predicted the GE winning party result was the exit polls by which point people have already voted. If you search all the polls a try to pick out just one that was accurate it's odd to say the polls were right on the leaders - that leader had quit within a year!

Of course exit polls were more accurate. They weren't predicting anything. So, looking purely at predictions. The polls that most closely predicted the outcome were the polls relating to leader popularity. (Millibland was way behind Camerscum.) That is why it is so important that Labour ditch Corduroy, who is still the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Of course exit polls were more accurate. They weren't predicting anything. So, looking purely at predictions. The polls that most closely predicted the outcome were the polls relating to leader popularity. (Millibland was way behind Camerscum.) That is why it is so important that Labour ditch Corduroy, who is still the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

if you look at by elections since the GE, growth of the party and the amount of U turns forced upon the government then he is doing well, just not in surveys of a thousand people.

 

[londonblue]

if you look at by elections since the GE, growth of the party and the amount of U turns forced upon the government then he is doing well, just not in surveys of a thousand people.

If you went by by-elections no government would ever be re-elected. The only poll that closely resembled the results of the last general election were the polls relating to leader popularity. That is why it is so important that Labour ditch Corduroy, who is still the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If you went by by-elections no government would ever be re-elected. The only poll that closely resembled the results of the last general election were the polls relating to leader popularity. That is why it is so important that Labour ditch Corduroy, who is still the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

personally I'm more inclined to take notice of the way people actually vote rather than what they say their opinion is (and only a thousand at a time are asked for most opinion surveys).

 

[londonblue]

personally I'm more inclined to take notice of the way people actually vote rather than what they say their opinion is (and only a thousand at a time are asked for most opinion surveys).

So would I if I were you. After all, you have to find something positive to say about the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So would I if I were you. After all, you have to find something positive to say about the worst performing leader of the opposition ever.

not just one thing - forcing the government to back track on numerous peices of ilconceived legislation, winning numerous by elections and taking the London Mayoralty off the Tories, tripling the membership of the party - dwarfing the membership of all other parties in the U.K., plenty of positive things to say.

But yes, opinion polls not good, let's see what happens in the real votes coming up in Stoke and Copeland and then later in Manchester - those are the ones that matter.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

because of the Leave vote in the north some sections of the press have predicted Labour losses so I'm not surprised that someone would take your bet.

Who would you like to see leading the Labour Party? How do you suggest getting around the fact that the membership has voted in the current leadership twice?

I missed this one for a while, sorry.

It's not just about the leader. If we could just dump Corbyn and replace him with someone competent that would be great, but it's not as simple as that.
The whole party is rotten to the core (to go deliberately too far),
When (or if) the membership of the party chooses to become a serious party of Government again then we can look at potential leaders and see where we are.
While we are split between those of us who want to do the dirty work and be a party of government, and those who want to be a fringe protest movement, the one at the top is of relatively little importance.
I am an elected GC delegate. We as a party are not fit to run the country. We spent nearly an hour arguing, debating, checking the rules, voting, re-voting, counting and voting again for one thing at the last meeting: changing the agenda. Changing the agenda.
A few of the more moderate ones of us sat wondering what the members of the actual party of government do on their Thursday evenings.
My mate who's an organiser, who spends every last waking hour working for the party for nothing looked devastated. I was genuinely worried for him. And I don't blame him

 

[Lord Football]

I am a member of the Labour Party. I rallied against it for years because it never really stood for what I wanted it to be. But, after the last election I concluded that the only credible option to the Tories were Labour. In my previous life on the Trade Union circuit, I got to know John McDonnell personally, and I've had dealings with Jeremy Corbyn. I was delighted when Corbyn got elected as leader. Now, at long last, we have someone with the right politics and principles to properly oppose the Tories.

And since then, well, its been a disaster.

I question the motives of those like Hilary Benn, who sought to undermine the leader of the Opposition at the very moment an Opposition was leader. I'd further question why supposed smart politicians tried to organise a coup when they knew Corbyn has the support of a vast majority of the Party Membership. That was clear when they ran a "no one" in opposition. That action alone was akin to stand in front of the electorate with your trousers round you ankles. And then its not helped when you see local party names saying they can't support him via social media. Just how that will go down when they go door knocking at election time is anyone's guess.

Corbyn has a constant fight with the media. Ok, we knew that would happen. They did much the same to Michael Foot. If you ask those who oppose Corbyn to list the things he stands for what they disagree with they struggle with an answer.

But, then, Corbyn doesn't do himself any favours. There appears to be very little desire to talk about matters at hand, and he kind of bumbles his way around interviews and doesn't inspire me much, let alone those he needs to convince. And I am not sure he has any concept of leadership skills. It was crazy not to allow a free vote on Article 50, and by not doing so, he's lost a couple more shadow cabinet members. I am not sure how many are left to fill those spaces.

And in the media storm that surrounds him, the Tories pretty get away with whatever they want. Even today, the news centred on Corbyn at PMQs rather than the cluster**** that is the White Paper on Brexit.

The difficulty is that no sensible debate about leadership can take place in the current, toxic, environment. And as such, we can all "look forward" to another dose of Tory mismanagement.

If Labour want to be the next Government, it wont be with Corbyn as leader. There. I said it. Now I feel dirty. But I needed to get it off my chest.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I am a member of the Labour Party. I rallied against it for years because it never really stood for what I wanted it to be. But, after the last election I concluded that the only credible option to the Tories were Labour. In my previous life on the Trade Union circuit, I got to know John McDonnell personally, and I've had dealings with Jeremy Corbyn. I was delighted when Corbyn got elected as leader. Now, at long last, we have someone with the right politics and principles to properly oppose the Tories.

And since then, well, its been a disaster.

I question the motives of those like Hilary Benn, who sought to undermine the leader of the Opposition at the very moment an Opposition was leader. I'd further question why supposed smart politicians tried to organise a coup when they knew Corbyn has the support of a vast majority of the Party Membership. That was clear when they ran a "no one" in opposition. That action alone was akin to stand in front of the electorate with your trousers round you ankles. And then its not helped when you see local party names saying they can't support him via social media. Just how that will go down when they go door knocking at election time is anyone's guess.

Corbyn has a constant fight with the media. Ok, we knew that would happen. They did much the same to Michael Foot. If you ask those who oppose Corbyn to list the things he stands for what they disagree with they struggle with an answer.

But, then, Corbyn doesn't do himself any favours. There appears to be very little desire to talk about matters at hand, and he kind of bumbles his way around interviews and doesn't inspire me much, let alone those he needs to convince. And I am not sure he has any concept of leadership skills. It was crazy not to allow a free vote on Article 50, and by not doing so, he's lost a couple more shadow cabinet members. I am not sure how many are left to fill those spaces.

And in the media storm that surrounds him, the Tories pretty get away with whatever they want. Even today, the news centred on Corbyn at PMQs rather than the cluster**** that is the White Paper on Brexit.

The difficulty is that no sensible debate about leadership can take place in the current, toxic, environment. And as such, we can all "look forward" to another dose of Tory mismanagement.

If Labour want to be the next Government, it wont be with Corbyn as leader. There. I said it. Now I feel dirty. But I needed to get it off my chest.

You shoul really contribute to this forum more often. By the way, in your trade union days did you ever come across Joe Cook. He also stood in Castle Point at the last GE.