Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Tangled up in Blue]

Labour need 3 million extra votes more than what Beaker required to gain a majority of 1 in a general election. Big ask.

That came from the Fabian Society as well (apart from the Beaker bit, that was me)

Yes, that was certainly how the press portrayed the Fabian's "Stuck" paper.However,something in the report which was not wideldly mentioned was " only 30 seats need to be gained for Labour to be able to govern in partnership with other center left parties.A far more plausible goal" ie than achieving an overall majority and gaining those "3 million extra votes".

 

[rigsby]

Even in the Fabian's worst nightmare (with Labour at 150 seats after the next G/E-extremely unlikely IMO) they'd still be HER MAJESTY'S OPPOSITION.

It's hardly the leader's fault if the PLP has been at war with itself over the last 12 months.

The real reason the PLP has been at war with itself.......JC is their leader :thumbsup:

 

[MK Shrimper]

You don't know what she's doing, you can't just make these ridiculous "she does nothing" statements all the time when you have no idea. Everyone knows that the biggest job she has as PM is to steer us out of the EU. It is a complicated and laborious process that no other PM has had to handle in our history and must be far more challenging than when we joined.
The fact of the matter is that she's not really had any defining moments to be judged upon as of yet.

Can you explain some of the things she's done that you disagree with, or things she's not done that she should have? Brexit related items do not count as every indication in every media source suggest that the Conservative party ARE working on this. Just because a plan is not published, it doesn't mean that one is not being worked on or exists.

Ultimately she will be judged on Brexit and all eyes are on this project/programme. If she makes a hash of it, I'm sure she will lose a lot of support. Enough to get Corbyn in? I don't think so personally.

I suggest that May will not be PM come the end of 2017. She was a Remainer, and the Tories will not be satisfied until a Hard-Line Brexiter will do whatever it takes to ensure a Hard Brexit regardless what it will do to the majority of the country - but they're already multi-millionaires so they've got nothing to fear.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You know that I was just responding to your question about whether Sadiq Khan winning the mayoral election was a surprise or not? No, it wasn't, regardless of the reasons behind it. Do you think it was?

I think you've used a lot of fluffy arguments there to detract from the fact that traditionally speaking, right wing is against immigration and left wing is for it. Of course in a mayoral election this point wouldn't make a blind bit of difference as the mayor has no power as such over immigration laws, but first generation ethnic minorities are still more likely to vote for Labour through fear of uncertainty over their future and this trend would carry over to mayorals (why would you vote Labour in the GE and not in the Mayorals unless you felt the Conservative alternative was stronger?). Upwards of 3rd generation, you might find a more balanced political spectrum....

I mentioned ethnic minorities as an example more than anything else of a voting demographic that would be more inclined to vote Labour, but I believe there is a strong left wing following in London regardless of race. Also, there is the fact that Sadiq was/is simply a stronger candidate for London Mayor than Goldsmith. Don't forget that Sadiq generally distances himself from Corbyns lot and is a little more central. This has appeal to swing voters too.

Or are you just trying to scream "racist" at me again with your response?

This discussion at that point was whether it was a surprise that London voted a left wing Muslim into office. In reply to you I pointed out that other religions and ethnicities are no more likely to vote for a Muslim than a Christian.

Maybe we were talking at crossed purposes. At no point did I accuse you if being racist, I'm not sure where you got that from.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You don't know what she's doing, you can't just make these ridiculous "she does nothing" statements all the time when you have no idea. Everyone knows that the biggest job she has as PM is to steer us out of the EU. It is a complicated and laborious process that no other PM has had to handle in our history and must be far more challenging than when we joined.
The fact of the matter is that she's not really had any defining moments to be judged upon as of yet.

Can you explain some of the things she's done that you disagree with, or things she's not done that she should have? Brexit related items do not count as every indication in every media source suggest that the Conservative party ARE working on this. Just because a plan is not published, it doesn't mean that one is not being worked on or exists.

Ultimately she will be judged on Brexit and all eyes are on this project/programme. If she makes a hash of it, I'm sure she will lose a lot of support. Enough to get Corbyn in? I don't think so personally.

true, she may be doing lots of things but none of them are visable and I judge on what I can see rather than what I can't.

You ask what she has done that I disagree with - it would largely be a list of what she hasn't done such as come up with any answers on the crisis in the NHS, transport, prisons, treating PMQs as a time for making poor jokes, her ill advised ministerial appointments, the fact she thinks this is a good time to try to reintroduce grammer and secondary modern schools, the fact she thinks we have the time to fight court cases to keep parliament out of the Brexit process. I can't think of anything that she had done that adds any value to anything.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

As I'm sure you're aware (I certainly am after doing 3 university courses in statistics ,1 at undergraduate,2 at post grad. level) the acceptable margin or error (in a poll sample of 1,600 say) is + or- 2.5.

Polytechnic surely?

Hope you passed one of them eventually.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Dear Shrimpers Are Magic. See what I mean?

I don't speak for mrsblue, I speak for myself. mrsblue speaks for himself also.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don't speak for mrsblue, I speak for myself. mrsblue speaks for himself also.

clearly than is not what I was saying

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

clearly than is not what I was saying

yeah sorry, I have tried catching up on your numerous postings but frankly became a little bored.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

yeah sorry, I have tried catching up on your numerous postings but frankly became a little bored.

I accept your apology with the good grace with which it was intended

 

[rigsby]

Polytechnic surely?

Hope you passed one of them eventually.

He should have done.....Statistically.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Polytechnic surely?

Hope you passed one of them eventually.

The undergraduate course was at Brum Poly.The two postgrad. courses were at UCL. I Passed them all thanks-the first after a resit.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The real reason the PLP has been at war with itself.......JC is their leader :thumbsup:

No.It's because the PLP is out of touch with the change in direction (to the left) that the Labour movement has made since the election defeat in 2015.

 

[Bielzibubz]

No.It's because the PLP is out of touch with the change in direction (to the left) that the Labour movement has made since the election defeat in 2015.

It made a change in direction. The problem is the vast majority of the Labour voting public didn't. Hense the **** sorry state it finds itself in now.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

why do you think you were naive to vote for Ed Miliband? I think he had decent policies and the fact that Cameron lasted just a year after his win and left us with an NHS crisis, housing crisis, prisons crisis, transport crisis, ever increasing foodbanks, massive increase in borrowing and a UK leaving the EU which he facilitated yet didn't want and didn't have an action plan for - that is what we got instead of Miliband. I can't think of a Miliband policy that was naive. The PR was often not great but his policies stand up IMO.

Ed Miliband was and is a decent bloke with a good heart and the kind of Labour politics that I believe in.
However, he was also a useless politician who was muddled in his thinking, indecisive and just odd. Remember One Nation Labour? We basically had a slogan and no one thought people might ask questions about what it meant.
Then remember that speech when he forgot to say anything at all about immigration or the deficit?
Kinda important things.
The guy was probably an alright guy, but if you honestly don't see that he was a crap politician then I'm not sure politics is for you. Did you never talk to anyone about him? Did you never think yourself that politicians need to prove that they are up to job in order to be given said job?
wanting things to be nicer is not enough

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Bearded uttered that word first.

if you are not up to speed with all the details on the trains (and I did just give you a link to where it was discussed at length) why did you call Bearded an idiot for voting for Sadiq when discussing his train policies? Maybe you should retract the comment where you called someone an idiot when it is as subject you are not up to speed on?

mrsblue said that Sadiq Khan only won the mayoralty because all the ethnic minority voters voted him in.
In my view that view is idiotic and I called mrsblue an idiot. He deserves a lot of the stick he gets but I did indeed use the word first.
and I stand by it

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

the amount of activists out working for Sadiq was largely because of Corbyn

that is not even close to being true.

Yes, a lot of keyboard warriors have joined because of Corbyn, but in the 18 odd months since they joined I have barely met any. And I go canvassing a lot. And I'm elected to positions within the party.
The only time I've seen them do anything is when they've turned up to AGMs demanding to take over the elected positions and storming off when they haven't won.

The leg work is still done by the old crew who turn up rain or shine, Blair or Corbyn.
But I'm lucky, not everywhere else is as lucky as where I am in that regard

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

I think the last few pages of this thread back this point up pretty well

It's not that people don't like Jeremy Corbyn, he's literally irrelevant - @debmattinson on the findings of focus groups


(I can't work out how to embed a tweet). I actually disagree, I dislike Corbyn as a politician and, I think, personally too. But I agree that he's totally irrelevant.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It made a change in direction. The problem is the vast majority of the Labour voting public didn't. Hense the **** sorry state it finds itself in now.

There is insufficient evidence -so far-to test the veracity of that hypothesis.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

that is not even close to being true.

Yes, a lot of keyboard warriors have joined because of Corbyn, but in the 18 odd months since they joined I have barely met any. And I go canvassing a lot. And I'm elected to positions within the party.
The only time I've seen them do anything is when they've turned up to AGMs demanding to take over the elected positions and storming off when they haven't won.

The leg work is still done by the old crew who turn up rain or shine, Blair or Corbyn.
But I'm lucky, not everywhere else is as lucky as where I am in that regard

Which London CLP are you talking about?:unsure: