Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I rarely use trains if ever so not up to speed with all of the details,but isn't it true that most trains operate without guards?

if you are not up to speed with all the details on the trains (and I did just give you a link to where it was discussed at length) why did you call Bearded an idiot for voting for Sadiq when discussing his train policies? Maybe you should retract the comment where you called someone an idiot when it is as subject you are not up to speed on?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I only commented on one player,that thread also contained an apology from me,I posted 4 times I think ?

Hardly my fault if adults become worked up,is it.

probably nicer if I take that as a rhetorical question

 

[mrsblue]

if you are not up to speed with all the details on the trains (and I did just give you a link to where it was discussed at length) why did you called Bearded an idiot for voting for Sadiq when discussing his train policies? Maybe you should retract the comment where you called someone an idiot when it is as subject you are not up to speed on?

Bearded uttered that word first.

 

[mrsblue]

probably nicer if I take that as a rhetorical question

In fact I posted 3 times on that thread.

1,Good point but Fortune still not scored
2.ok the forward mustn't score.
3.Sorry

How the hell can anyone become worked up over those comments.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Because you made them lol.....

 

[mrsblue]

Because you made them lol.....

Exactly !

Anyone else made those comments then there would be little interest and certainly no abuse.Some of them were going into meltdown mode.

If I said the grass was green then some on here would argue the point.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

How many muslims live in London ?
How many Muslims voted for Khan ?

Scenario,

City called "white folk"... City has population of 8 million....Mayor candidates number 4....1 is Muslim and Asian....city has only 5% ethnic with 3% of these Muslim .....other 3 candidates are all white dudes.

Who do you think would be elected Mayor?

The best candidate?

Obama won twice. FYI African-Americans are under 15% of the US population.

Zac Goldsmith lost because he ran an absolutely disgusting campaign which alienated millions.

as we discussed many times I went to the constituency where Farage lost only once. That doesn't really count as following him around.

So Corbyn has nothing to say on Brexit you say. Tell me please - Mrs May, our PM, the person actually in charge of Brexit - what does she have to say on Brexit?

When you say Farage lost, can you narrow it down a bit more. He's lost - what is it - 7(?) Parliamentary elections.

 

[rigsby]

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?91268-Hard-or-Soft-Brexit&highlight=Brexit

this is the Brexit thread - Mrs May is in charge of Brexit so that is her thread - 34 pages of it, could you show me on the Brexit thread the post where anyone explains her policies on Brexit please? A few posts back you were telling me what I think, as apparently I didn't know, well I don't know what Mrs May thinks either so maybe you could help me out a second time.

The oppositions policy is to hold the government to account over the government's policies on Brextit. Rather than jump the gun, could you tell me what the government's policies on Brexit are please, then I will return the favour and explain how the opposition will hold those policies to account.

That is a logical sequence of events. If you feel more comfortable this way you can post your clarification on the Brexit thread and I can reply by posting a link and my reply on this thread, so everything is in the right place.

No wonder even your left wing mates have deserted you. 214 pages and not a single convert to Corbyn.

Stop ranting about May nobody is interested. Try growing a pair and answer a question.

I'll start with an easy one... Do you agree with JC that Britain needs more immigration not less.?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The best candidate?

Obama won twice. FYI African-Americans are under 15% of the US population.

Zac Goldsmith lost because he ran an absolutely disgusting campaign which alienated millions.



When you say Farage lost, can you narrow it down a bit more. He's lost - what is it - 7(?) Parliamentary elections.

yes he is a serial parliamentary loser - my one visit to where he was standing was in 2015, Rigsby sees that as some kind of obsession

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

In fact I posted 3 times on that thread.

1,Good point but Fortune still not scored
2.ok the forward mustn't score.
3.Sorry

How the hell can anyone become worked up over those comments.

I don't think they were reacting to the posts on that thread in particular but a build up of posts that are seemingly lacking in first hand experience or knowledge

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No wonder even your left wing mates have deserted you. 214 pages and not a single convert to Corbyn.

Stop ranting about May nobody is interested. Try growing a pair and answer a question.

I'll start with an easy one... Do you agree with JC that Britain needs more immigration not less.?

who are my left wing mates that have deserted me?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No wonder even your left wing mates have deserted you. 214 pages and not a single convert to Corbyn.

Stop ranting about May nobody is interested. Try growing a pair and answer a question.

I'll start with an easy one... Do you agree with JC that Britain needs more immigration not less.?

I have a pair but after fathering 3 children I had them tampered with so they no longer perform their primary function.

I don't think JC said that Britain needed more immigration not less but he doesn't see immigration as an issue as claims such as immigration reducing wages he sees as an issue with workers rights not being protected and therefore unscrupulous employers taking advantage - so issues with poor treatment of workers being an existing problem and immigration being a tool to exploit that. He is aware that employers such as tech companies, farmers, the NHS, care industries, restaurant industies are all under resourced in terms of employees. He is aware that immigration feeds economic growth and we have a fragile economy with rocketing debt. He is aware that access to the EU single market goes hand in hand with free movement within the EU. So a dumbed down one liner doesn't cover even the small amount that I just added.

Keir Starmer has laid out the framework of Labour's approach to Brexit. Its more than the government have done but I haven't posted it up for your eager eyes because as I keep saying I don't see the point in having an opposition reaction to government policy until the government policy exists - which it doesn't.

'Stop ranting about May nobody is interested' - I find that alarming, not that you just said it but that it does seem to be the attitude of a lot of people including large sections of the media. Literally she says and does nothing and few people seem to care. We will in the next few months be triggering the biggest change to how this country opperates - certainly in my memory - and we know nothing about what will happen and few people are showing any interest in the government and its mechanics. It really seems that some people saw Brexit as a game, a big '**** you' aimed and noone in particular and a couple of months after the vote it was all deemed a bit boring really - government, policy, May - just all a bit boring. As you say - nobody is interested.

 

[londonblue]

you weren't surprised that a left wing Muslim was voted in as Mayor of our capital city then?

To me that was a foregone conclusion, despite Corduroy.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

To me that was a foregone conclusion, despite Corduroy.

the amount of activists out working for Sadiq was largely because of Corbyn, the party had doubled in size by that point and has now trebled.

You may have seen it as a foregone conclusion but that is easy in hindsight. At the point where Labour were choosing a candidate we were told that only Tessa Jowell could beat Zac as she appeal to the middle ground that everyone seems so keen on. Sadiq was not the recognised choice.

Also - if it was a foregone conclusion Zac would not have resorted to such disgusting tactics, why throw his career away if he did not think he could win. Evening Standard fully endorsed that too - and newspapers don't like to back the losing side.

Sadiq got the media character assassinations that Corbyn still gets now, that only ended after he got into power.

It was far from a forgone conclusion until the campaigns were up and running and then the difference in policy and attitude came to light. Labour very much won that election after 8 years of the Conservatives being in charge.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Amazingly the Wikipedia page you seem to rely upon has now been updated to include this most recent "rogue poll".

Your "25% is history" statement remains accurate and a Tory lead of "around 12%" depends on whether you can accept 15% within your margin of error. I'm sure you can and will.

As I'm sure you're aware (I certainly am after doing 3 university courses in statistics ,1 at undergraduate,2 at post grad. level) the acceptable margin or error (in a poll sample of 1,600 say) is + or- 2.5.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Labour need 3 million extra votes more than what Beaker required to gain a majority of 1 in a general election. Big ask.

That came from the Fabian Society as well (apart from the Beaker bit, that was me)

Hopeless Mutinous Outfit?

There have been 3 by-elections since the referendum. Labour have lost their deposit in one, gone from 2nd to 3rd in another, and from 2nd to 4th in the remaining one. Labour have been similarly pitiful in local elections where they're going backwards - an impressive feat from such a small base.

Even in the Fabian's worst nightmare (with Labour at 150 seats after the next G/E-extremely unlikely IMO) they'd still be HER MAJESTY'S OPPOSITION.

It's hardly the leader's fault if the PLP has been at war with itself over the last 12 months.

 

[londonblue]

the amount of activists out working for Sadiq was largely because of Corbyn, the party had doubled in size by that point and has now trebled.

In your opinion. Party size may have increased, but there seems to be an inverse relationship between that and the share of votes.

You may have seen it as a foregone conclusion but that is easy in hindsight. At the point where Labour were choosing a candidate we were told that only Tessa Jowell could beat Zac as she appeal to the middle ground that everyone seems so keen on. Sadiq was not the recognised choice.

Also - if it was a foregone conclusion Zac would not have resorted to such disgusting tactics, why throw his career away if he did not think he could win. Evening Standard fully endorsed that too - and newspapers don't like to back the losing side.

Sadiq got the media character assassinations that Corbyn still gets now, that only ended after he got into power.

It was far from a forgone conclusion until the campaigns were up and running and then the difference in policy and attitude came to light. Labour very much won that election after 8 years of the Conservatives being in charge.

Nope. I said as much well before the election. Maybe not on here...

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

In your opinion. Party size may have increased, but there seems to be an inverse relationship between that and the share of votes.



Nope. I said as much well before the election. Maybe not on here...

Not really, Labour won the Mayoral contests in London and Bristol after the big increase in membership and also won with increased margins in various northern parliamentary seats (though we are told the traditional vote is dwindling). Cameron’s old seat and the anti Zac vote in Richmond are the only places were the Labour vote has crashed. Plus of course every time Yougov ask a thousand people.

I too thought Sadiq would win, but I’m an optimist. I didn’t think it a foregone conclusion otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered canvassing. If you look at the facts around the set up though there are many reasons why he may not have won.

For some reason many people trying to talk down the party like to make out this win doesn’t really count. It does – it means Labour can show that they can govern.

 

[superblue24]

Boris Johnson - London Mayor 2008 to 2016 representing the Conservative Party.

When would the ethnic mix in London make any difference? Are the Chinese more likely to vote for a Muslim? Are Black Christians more likely to vote for a Muslim? Are Hindus more likely to vote for a Muslim? The fact that a mixed ethnic society is not necessarily an advantage to Sadiq can be shown in the way that the Conservatives targeted Hindus specifically to make them fear they would not be treated fairly with a Muslim mayor, and the whole non Muslim population generally to attempt to make us all fear him.

I invested many hours canvassing for Sadiq so clearly his religion is no issue for me but it is for a lot of people and not just whites but people of all races.

You know that I was just responding to your question about whether Sadiq Khan winning the mayoral election was a surprise or not? No, it wasn't, regardless of the reasons behind it. Do you think it was?

I think you've used a lot of fluffy arguments there to detract from the fact that traditionally speaking, right wing is against immigration and left wing is for it. Of course in a mayoral election this point wouldn't make a blind bit of difference as the mayor has no power as such over immigration laws, but first generation ethnic minorities are still more likely to vote for Labour through fear of uncertainty over their future and this trend would carry over to mayorals (why would you vote Labour in the GE and not in the Mayorals unless you felt the Conservative alternative was stronger?). Upwards of 3rd generation, you might find a more balanced political spectrum....

I mentioned ethnic minorities as an example more than anything else of a voting demographic that would be more inclined to vote Labour, but I believe there is a strong left wing following in London regardless of race. Also, there is the fact that Sadiq was/is simply a stronger candidate for London Mayor than Goldsmith. Don't forget that Sadiq generally distances himself from Corbyns lot and is a little more central. This has appeal to swing voters too.

Or are you just trying to scream "racist" at me again with your response?

 

[superblue24]

'Stop ranting about May nobody is interested' - I find that alarming, not that you just said it but that it does seem to be the attitude of a lot of people including large sections of the media. Literally she says and does nothing and few people seem to care.

You don't know what she's doing, you can't just make these ridiculous "she does nothing" statements all the time when you have no idea. Everyone knows that the biggest job she has as PM is to steer us out of the EU. It is a complicated and laborious process that no other PM has had to handle in our history and must be far more challenging than when we joined.
The fact of the matter is that she's not really had any defining moments to be judged upon as of yet.

Can you explain some of the things she's done that you disagree with, or things she's not done that she should have? Brexit related items do not count as every indication in every media source suggest that the Conservative party ARE working on this. Just because a plan is not published, it doesn't mean that one is not being worked on or exists.

Ultimately she will be judged on Brexit and all eyes are on this project/programme. If she makes a hash of it, I'm sure she will lose a lot of support. Enough to get Corbyn in? I don't think so personally.