Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

despite the fact that the Tory government are making a mess of just about everything they come up smelling of roses coz we are even worse.
If I wasn't a Labour member for ten years i'd probably back the other lot as the lesser of two evils, but i am a Labour member so i'm biased.
and I still think we're awful

of these things below - which do you think Labour policy is worse than the Tories?

parts of middle England are being hit by appallingly run train franchises, education budgets are being shifted around with some big losers, university fee increases, A&E closures and waiting list increases at hospitals and GP surgeries, law and order issues as prison services are in meltdown, house prices meaning the reliance of the bank of Mum and Dad, business rates increases - target Tory voters will sooner or later run out of patience with May. And that is if they manage to close their eyes to the increases in homelessness and foodbanks and the cuts to disability benefits.

 

[mrsblue]

of these things below - which do you think Labour policy is worse than the Tories?

parts of middle England are being hit by appallingly run train franchises, education budgets are being shifted around with some big losers, university fee increases, A&E closures and waiting list increases at hospitals and GP surgeries, law and order issues as prison services are in meltdown, house prices meaning the reliance of the bank of Mum and Dad, business rates increases - target Tory voters will sooner or later run out of patience with May. And that is if they manage to close their eyes to the increases in homelessness and foodbanks and the cuts to disability benefits.

Labour invited millions of people into the country whilst clocking up massive debt to pay for them,don't forget they even left the infamous note...the money is all gone.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Labour invited millions of people into the country whilst clocking up massive debt to pay for them,don't forget they even left the infamous note...the money is all gone.

immigration has been higher under the Tories than under Labour. Borrowing is higher under the Tories than under Labour. Its a tradition for a 'jokey' note to be left in the Treasury, the person that left that 'joke' is a tool, an individual's attempt at humour that failed on all levels.

You say Labour will come third at the next GE. Behind who?

 

[mrsblue]

immigration has been higher under the Tories than under Labour. Borrowing is higher under the Tories than under Labour. Its a tradition for a 'jokey' note to be left in the Treasury, the person that left that 'joke' is a tool, an individual's attempt at humour that failed on all levels.

You say Labour will come third at the next GE. Behind who?

My tip is the LP will split with one half teaming up with the Libs after the next GE after both parties suffer embarrassing defeats.

Whilst other countries were having quotas on who arrived,Labour declined ,they soon realised the trickle quickly became a torrent...The Labour advisors thought 30,000 Poles would arrive here..600,000 arrived instead..spectacular own goal which effected every person..madness.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

and despite all of this, you're still nowhere in the polls.

The last national poll I heard referred to (before Xmas) put Labour 8% behind the Tories.I'd expect that gap to narrow quite considerably once the Brexit fiasco (sorry negotiations) start in earnest next year and the split in the Tory ranks becomes more obvious.

My tip is the LP will split with one half teaming up with the Libs after the next GE after both parties suffer embarrassing defeats.

I would hope that Labour agree to a rainbow coalition with the SNP,Lib/Dems and Greens before and not after the next G/E.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

My tip is the LP will split with one half teaming up with the Libs after the next GE after both parties suffer embarrassing defeats.

Whilst other countries were having quotas on who arrived,Labour declined ,they soon realised the trickle quickly became a torrent...The Labour advisors thought 30,000 Poles would arrive here..600,000 arrived instead..spectacular own goal which effected every person..madness.

It's a bit rich to still be banging on about the Blair/Brown years on immigration after the Tories have been in power for the last 6 years (and maybe for another 4).

Haven't UKIP got anything at all positive to say about immigration? Labour has.

JC:-"We should recognise that European workers in Britain do contribute massively to the health service, education, manufacturing industry, care work, agricultural sector. We’d be in quite a difficult place if they all went."

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

My tip is the LP will split with one half teaming up with the Libs after the next GE after both parties suffer embarrassing defeats.

Whilst other countries were having quotas on who arrived,Labour declined ,they soon realised the trickle quickly became a torrent...The Labour advisors thought 30,000 Poles would arrive here..600,000 arrived instead..spectacular own goal which effected every person..madness.

As the Lib Dems have 9 MPs and their membership is about 12% of Labour's that would be a strange move for any Labour MP but politics often surprises. The likelyhood of that party becoming bigger than Labour - well a bookie would snap your hand off if you wanted to place a bet but if it happened you could be rich.

You get that the madness / own goals of the last Labour government have been madder and more own goalie under the Tories?

 

[mrsblue]

As the Lib Dems have 9 MPs and their membership is about 12% of Labour's that would be a strange move for any Labour MP but politics often surprises. The likelyhood of that party becoming bigger than Labour - well a bookie would snap your hand off if you wanted to place a bet but if it happened you could be rich.

You get that the madness / own goals of the last Labour government have been madder and more own goalie under the Tories?

The Tories are as bad.

Truth is,it's all one big game for them all.

 

[Bielzibubz]

It's a bit rich to still be banging on about the Blair/Brown years on immigration after the Tories have been in power for the last 6 years (and maybe for another 4).

Haven't UKIP got anything at all positive to say about immigration? Labour has.

JC:-"We should recognise that European workers in Britain do contribute massively to the health service, education, manufacturing industry, care work, agricultural sector. We’d be in quite a difficult place if they all went."

Who, where and when has anyone ever suggested that they'd all be deported, go somewhere and leave us in this 'difficult place'? For JC to to infer something that quite clearly will never ever happen is somewhat strange to say the least.

If on the other hand he's just stating the bleedin obvious then that's just as strange. And just to make clear. A sustainable, viable and just immigration system is all we ask. Something that fulfils the needs of the labour market of this country whilst protecting it's citizens from those that would do it harm and declining entry to those either not needed or not legally entitled. It's that simple.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Who, where and when has anyone ever suggested that they'd all be deported, go somewhere and leave us in this 'difficult place'? For JC to to infer something that quite clearly will never ever happen is somewhat strange to say the least.

If on the other hand he's just stating the bleedin obvious then that's just as strange. And just to make clear. A sustainable, viable and just immigration system is all we ask. Something that fulfils the needs of the labour market of this country whilst protecting it's citizens from those that would do it harm and declining entry to those either not needed or not legally entitled. It's that simple.

Your post may seem reasonable, but the powers that be are failing to act reasonably. Liam Fox has stated he is willing to use EU citizens who are already here as a bargaining tool and May has refused to give any assurances.

This is being widely reported and other similar cases are now coming to light. Doesn't bode well for the structure of controlling immigration, of reassuring those that are legally able to stay, attracting the 'right kind' of immigration or for anyone that needs to contact the immigration services.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mi...h-mum-two-told-home-9528363.amp?client=safari


So you may think that Corbyn is stating the obvious but either it is not obvious to the Government or they are too scared to officially state anything. Other than 'Brexit means Brexit' of course.


Immigration is the same as everything else EU related where this government is concerned - there is no plan.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Post #3051 (author A.S.S.) states a lot of what is obvious to a commoner, plus the awful state of the police and Military but JC isn't, AND HE SHOULD BE, banging on and on, about those things.
Rarely in history could a leader of the opposition have so many "open goals" to shoot at and miss time and again.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Post #3051 (author A.S.S.) states a lot of what is obvious to a commoner, plus the awful state of the police and Military but JC isn't, AND HE SHOULD BE, banging on and on, about those things.
Rarely in history could a leader of the opposition have so many "open goals" to shoot at and miss time and again.

a big issue is the outlets available. Pretty much everything on that list are subjects he has brought up in PMQs - where May swerves everything. Newspapers mostly under report any scrutiny of the government. TV interviews he can not dictate the subject matter and it's invariable questions about internal issues or anti-Semitism (strange that the Panorama undercover reporter that infiltrated Momentum for 6 months found not one utterance of this issue that we are led to believe is rife).

It's not that he isn't making these points it's that they go unreported - this is why the 'we are his media' thing was set up, and why Labour vote share has been increasing in areas that already have a strong Labour vote - essentially Labour voters are talking amoungst themselves.

Yes he needs to up his game and get the message across to a wider audience, yes the PLP needs to make sure it backs him, yes they need to find a way around the fact the mainstream media are and will obstruct his message getting across.

Its still early days for him effectively due to the 2nd leadership campaign and due to May being in a honeymoon period. More focus in 2017 and we will see what happens.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Who, where and when has anyone ever suggested that they'd all be deported, go somewhere and leave us in this 'difficult place'? For JC to to infer something that quite clearly will never ever happen is somewhat strange to say the least.

If on the other hand he's just stating the bleedin obvious then that's just as strange. And just to make clear. A sustainable, viable and just immigration system is all we ask. Something that fulfils the needs of the labour market of this country whilst protecting it's citizens from those that would do it harm and declining entry to those either not needed or not legally entitled. It's that simple.

Let's face it the Tories under Cameron, (with May as Home Secretary), made a massive horlix of immigration.

The 2010 manifesto pledge (repeated in 2015) to get immigration down "to the tens of thousands" was never remotely achievable.

Nor is it likely to be it be in the future.Probably because it's not a "simple" matter at all for an advanced,European economy to achieve.

 

[rigsby]

a big issue is the outlets available. Pretty much everything on that list are subjects he has brought up in PMQs - where May swerves everything. Newspapers mostly under report any scrutiny of the government. TV interviews he can not dictate the subject matter and it's invariable questions about internal issues or anti-Semitism (strange that the Panorama undercover reporter that infiltrated Momentum for 6 months found not one utterance of this issue that we are led to believe is rife).

It's not that he isn't making these points it's that they go unreported - this is why the 'we are his media' thing was set up, and why Labour vote share has been increasing in areas that already have a strong Labour vote - essentially Labour voters are talking amoungst themselves.

Yes he needs to up his game and get the message across to a wider audience, yes the PLP needs to make sure it backs him, yes they need to find a way around the fact the mainstream media are and will obstruct his message getting across.

Its still early days for him effectively due to the 2nd leadership campaign and due to May being in a honeymoon period. More focus in 2017 and we will see what happens.

Perhaps you could help him by letting us all know what will Labour be doing for Britain post Brexit. What you haven't learnt is telling the world how nasty the Tories are, completely failed in the GE so change the record. Don't bother blaming the press because that's what my union did after every defeat rather than admit to their own failings. Remember that now forgotten phrase 'We have to listen to people'

If you want people to vote Labour they need more than what they get from the likes of Alastair Campbell.....We should have never had a referendum in the first place. Well Alastair we did and we voted out....so what are you offering me.

 

[londonblue]

It seems reasonable to me to presume that if the Tories make a horlix of the Brexit negotiations, (highly likely I'd've thought),then there is huge potential for Labour to pick up disaffected Tory/Ukip voters plus Lib/Dems in Labour/Tory marginals.Roll on 2020.

Agreed. So if they don't I think we can agree Corduroy will have proven himself to be an abject failure.

 

[londonblue]

The last national poll I heard referred to (before Xmas) put Labour 8% behind the Tories.I'd expect that gap to narrow quite considerably once the Brexit fiasco (sorry negotiations) start in earnest next year and the split in the Tory ranks becomes more obvious.

Of course that means nothing these days. The real issue is how far behind May Corduroy is.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Of course that means nothing these days. The real issue is how far behind May Corduroy is.

Not really.It's not a Presidential election in the UK (yet).People usually put their party preference ahead of who the leader is.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Perhaps you could help him by letting us all know what will Labour be doing for Britain post Brexit. What you haven't learnt is telling the world how nasty the Tories are, completely failed in the GE so change the record. Don't bother blaming the press because that's what my union did after every defeat rather than admit to their own failings. Remember that now forgotten phrase 'We have to listen to people'

If you want people to vote Labour they need more than what they get from the likes of Alastair Campbell.....We should have never had a referendum in the first place. Well Alastair we did and we voted out....so what are you offering me.

J.C.'s position on the EU and Brexit is quite clear and can be gleaned from that exclusive Guardian interview I posted the other day.

Alistair Campell will, almost certainly, never hold a position of responsibility in the Labour party again (thank God)!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Agreed. So if they don't I think we can agree Corduroy will have proven himself to be an abject failure.

I don't think there's any question that he would have to resign (I'd imagine he'd want to anyway) if labour lose the next G/E.

 

[rigsby]

J.C.'s position on the EU and Brexit is quite clear and can be gleaned from that exclusive Guardian interview I posted the other day.

Alistair Campell will, almost certainly, never hold a position of responsibility in the Labour party again (thank God)!

Don't read it. The Sun would have a more balanced view for politics.