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Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

It's hardly JC's fault, (as *** says), that the UK media weren't interested in his remain speeches up and down the UK (to packed meetings).Instead they preferred to focus on the Blue-on-Blue dogfight.

As I recall such was his devotion to the remain campaign that he refused to share a platform with many of the leading lights from the remain campaign, so there was an element of choice surrounding his involvement.

Under challenge AAS has contradicted himself somewhat by on the one hand admitting that other politicians conducted themselves well...Sturgeon, Davidson (there are others that I could add to that list such as Giesella Stuart, Kate Hoey etc) and made memorable contributions....Corbyn however did not.

Are you suggesting that the Media ignored Corbyn but not Sturgeon?

What I would say is that Corbyn did not go totally missing during the debate, I'm not suggesting he got involved in any of the main televised debates or any of the serious political shows, but in fairness and in the spirit of compromise he did turn up on a late night comedy show on channel 4 to score the EU a very generous 7 out of 10....
 
My answer remains the same - apart from the fat lies - no one was saying anything particularly memorable during the referendum. The reasons for staying and reasons for leaving were evident so specific wording used is not going to stick in my mind.


We both agree that Sturgeon conducted herself well and as you say Ruth Davison put her points across well but neither of us can quote specifics from either of them - or Corbyn, because it's only the big fat lies that stick in your mind and those three were not tarnished by such things. To single Corbyn out makes no sense when we can't even quote those that we agree were good performers.

Here are some memorable quotes (no googling) from the referendum;

Take back Control

UK will be at the back of the Queue

We've had enough of experts

You’re no fishermen’s friend, Nigel

In no sense do I have some divine hotline to the right answer. But for my part, I shall vote to remain

Boris, he’s the life and soul of the party. But he’s not the man you want to drive you home at the end of the evening

Get that lie off your bus!

If it’s a Yes we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue"

It’s nonsense. Nonsense on stilts

When I heard that I did think of Pinocchio and the nose growing rather longer.

This will be a once-in-a-generation moment to shape the destiny of our country

I did all I could

A cake-filled, misery-laden, grey old island

Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out, and it ends tragically. The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods . . . there is no underlying loyalty to the idea of Europe

We’ll turn round to the bureaucratic elite and say: ‘We’re just not into EU

See how many you can get AAS
 
As I recall such was his devotion to the remain campaign that he refused to share a platform with many of the leading lights from the remain campaign, so there was an element of choice surrounding his involvement.

Under challenge AAS has contradicted himself somewhat by on the one hand admitting that other politicians conducted themselves well...Sturgeon, Davidson (there are others that I could add to that list such as Giesella Stuart, Kate Hoey etc) and made memorable contributions....Corbyn however did not.

Are you suggesting that the Media ignored Corbyn but not Sturgeon?

What I would say is that Corbyn did not go totally missing during the debate, I'm not suggesting he got involved in any of the main televised debates or any of the serious political shows, but in fairness and in the spirit of compromise he did turn up on a late night comedy show on channel 4 to score the EU a very generous 7 out of 10....
He refused to share a platform with Tories because his reasons for Remain were nothing to do with theirs. From his perspective to share space with them would water down the arguments they were each putting forward.

For me the fact that was the right thing to do was brought home when I saw photos of Galloway and Farage together - I remember thinking 'is this what it has come to?'


'Under challenge' - that made me smirk. It's a discussion. 'Under challenge'!!!


7/10 - honesty. Gasp, shock horror - a politician being honest. There were representatives of the Labour Party that were much more than 7/10 and they were more prominent on TV. Makes sense. Corbyn toured the country. Many more people engage with him in those environs than they do with most (all?) other UK politicians. He wasn't willing to go on TV and pretend that the EU was the promised land and 'it's not great but we are better off in than we are out' was not sexy enough for TV.
 
Here are some memorable quotes (no googling) from the referendum;

Take back Control

UK will be at the back of the Queue

We've had enough of experts

You’re no fishermen’s friend, Nigel

In no sense do I have some divine hotline to the right answer. But for my part, I shall vote to remain

Boris, he’s the life and soul of the party. But he’s not the man you want to drive you home at the end of the evening

Get that lie off your bus!

If it’s a Yes we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue"

It’s nonsense. Nonsense on stilts

When I heard that I did think of Pinocchio and the nose growing rather longer.

This will be a once-in-a-generation moment to shape the destiny of our country

I did all I could

A cake-filled, misery-laden, grey old island

Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out, and it ends tragically. The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods . . . there is no underlying loyalty to the idea of Europe

We’ll turn round to the bureaucratic elite and say: ‘We’re just not into EU

See how many you can get AAS
I think we are approaching this from a different perspective - I was approaching it as a discussion - this way seems more like a game show - Family Fortunes springs to mind.

That said you have a better memory than me, and some of those were quite long too - more descriptive than 'Brexit means Brexit'.


The question is though - how many of those do you find inspiring?


For me, once I realised it was '£350m a week more for the NHS' (despite the fact that was way more than we give the EU) verses WW3 I zoned out. If the thing was built on lies I just reverted to my default position - that the government did not have the talent to remove us from the EU without making a **** up of it. It seems the instigator of the referendum David Cameron agreed with me as he quit as soon as it needed to be enacted and Theresa May looks to be making that come true as she hides behind the delays of the Supreme Court to buy time.


So no I won't be winning any quote-offs. But I applaud your ability to remember all of those. Bit depressing to be reminded of the level of debate the quoted were offering us though.
 
Who - you or me? I see the odd retweet but probably only the controversial ones though, so I'm not that familiar with his style.

main-qimg-c28ecab16610f78f16a34196b2d07f04-c.jpg
 
I think we are approaching this from a different perspective - I was approaching it as a discussion - this way seems more like a game show - Family Fortunes springs to mind.

That said you have a better memory than me, and some of those were quite long too - more descriptive than 'Brexit means Brexit'.


The question is though - how many of those do you find inspiring?


For me, once I realised it was '£350m a week more for the NHS' (despite the fact that was way more than we give the EU) verses WW3 I zoned out. If the thing was built on lies I just reverted to my default position - that the government did not have the talent to remove us from the EU without making a **** up of it. It seems the instigator of the referendum David Cameron agreed with me as he quit as soon as it needed to be enacted and Theresa May looks to be making that come true as she hides behind the delays of the Supreme Court to buy time.


So no I won't be winning any quote-offs. But I applaud your ability to remember all of those. Bit depressing to be reminded of the level of debate the quoted were offering us though.

Perhaps the point... that there were many memorable quotes, in addition to many memorable performances during the referendum was too subtle for you AAS?

As for you approaching this as a discussion... you make lots of points yet fail time and time again to address the central issue of Corbyns failure to have a high profile showing or make a memorable contribution during the debate.
 
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He refused to share a platform with Tories because his reasons for Remain were nothing to do with theirs. From his perspective to share space with them would water down the arguments they were each putting forward.

A competent Politician could have shared a Platform to put their own vision of the UKs continued membership forward....and would have put political differences aside.

No doubt you will recall during the debate I pointed out to you and others that you would have to hold your nose and support cameron.

Bizzarre isn't it then....that Corbyn couldn't do this?

For me the fact that was the right thing to do was brought home when I saw photos of Galloway and Farage together - I remember thinking 'is this what it has come to?'

You make my above point perfectly, that politicians could put aside their differences and work alongside one another.

'Under challenge' - that made me smirk. It's a discussion. 'Under challenge'!!!

Your views and and support of Corbyn are frequently challenged on this discussion forum.

'He wasn't willing to go on TV and pretend that the EU was the promised land and 'it's not great .

Finally we get there AAS...take a bow you are now half right...and now it's my turn too smirk.

He was willing to go on TV....but chose a comedy show instead of a serious political one....and having secured this outlet to present his support for the UK staying in the EU....what was the new late night King of Comedy's contribution to persuading voters to remain?....as you point out AAS, it was to tell us that the EU isn't that great.
 
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As I recall such was his devotion to the remain campaign that he refused to share a platform with many of the leading lights from the remain campaign, so there was an element of choice surrounding his involvement.

Under challenge AAS has contradicted himself somewhat by on the one hand admitting that other politicians conducted themselves well...Sturgeon, Davidson (there are others that I could add to that list such as Giesella Stuart, Kate Hoey etc) and made memorable contributions....Corbyn however did not.

Are you suggesting that the Media ignored Corbyn but not Sturgeon?

What I would say is that Corbyn did not go totally missing during the debate, I'm not suggesting he got involved in any of the main televised debates or any of the serious political shows, but in fairness and in the spirit of compromise he did turn up on a late night comedy show on channel 4 to score the EU a very generous 7 out of 10....


I'm old enough to remember that plenty of people (on both the left/right) refused to share a platform with Enoch Powell, (who I saw speak in Birmingham), when he was campaigning against British membership of the EEC back in 1974.
 
A competent Politician could have shared a Platform to put their own vision of the UKs continued membership forward....and would have put political differences aside.

No doubt you will recall during the debate I pointed out to you and others that you would have to hold your nose and support cameron.

Bizzarre isn't it then....that Corbyn couldn't do this?



You make my above point perfectly, that politicians could put aside their differences and work alongside one another.



Your views and and support of Corbyn are frequently challenged on this discussion forum.



Finally we get there AAS...take a bow you are now half right...and now it's my turn too smirk.

He was willing to go on TV....but chose a comedy show instead of a serious political one....and having secured this outlet to present his support for the UK staying in the EU....what was the new late night King of Comedy's contribution to persuading voters to remain?....as you point out AAS, it was to tell us that the EU isn't that great.
I never once held my nose and supported Cameron. You may recall at the time that I was voting against Cameron - against his ability to remove us from the EU without ****ing it up. And lo and behold Cameron himself, despite promising to stay on, realised he had created a monster and quit.

I have plenty of times held my nose and voted Lib Dem because I always vote against the Tories. I never vote Tory and never will.


Holding up the coming together of Galloway and Farage as an example of the way things should be done is as crazy as crazy gets IMO.


You are judging someone from your values, but he doesn't share your values.


This is a fundamentally different approach to what you are looking for. There was a yes / no vote. Each option was backed by half of the Conservative party. The fact that you still see a Remain vote as backing Cameron is why you should see the point not sharing platform with Cameron. If Corbyn had shared a platform with Cameron then you would now be talking about him backing Cameron so in that respect he did the right thing.


Corbyn's job was to get the Labour vote out for Remain. It wasn't to try to convert Tory voters - that was Cameron's job.


You may not see 'Last Leg' as a valuable source of media coverage but you are not the kind of person Corbyn was trying to reach. 'Last Leg' is part comedy but part political / social comment. It was set up to report on sport for the disabled. This is exactly the kind of media that people with empathic leanings will watch and that is a Corbyn audience. Those people want the truth not the threats that Cameron was offering.


Cameron called a referendum for two reasons - to stop losing votes to UKIP and to calm the anti EU section in his party. He called it on the assumption that there would be a Remain vote. He was wrong.


His job - once he had called a referendum was to get his own MPs and Tory voters to back Remain. He failed to get members of his own cabinet to back his stance. He failed to get Tory voters to vote his way. He failed to stick around to clear up the mess he had created.


Corbyn's job was to get the Labour vote for Remain. He succeeded in getting his MPs to back Remain. There was less than a handful of Labour MPs that didn't back Remain. He succeeded in getting 70% of Labour voters to back Remain.


You don't agree with Corbyn's policies and you don't agree with his methods - neither of these things are a surprise.


But as party leaders each of them are responsible for getting their voters to back the party line. Corbyn had 70% of his, Cameron had under 50% of his. From that it seemed one of their approaches worked and one didn't.
 
I'm old enough to remember that plenty of people (on both the left/right) refused to share a platform with Enoch Powell, (who I saw speak in Birmingham), when he was campaigning against British membership of the EEC back in 1974.

Not quite the same....no one was refusing to share a platform with Corbyn.
 
It's hardly JC's fault, (as *** says), that the UK media weren't interested in his remain speeches up and down the UK (to packed meetings).Instead they preferred to focus on the Blue-on-Blue dogfight.

Actually I would say it is. An effective opposition leader would be making the headlines and driving the news stories, as Blair and Camerscum did.
 
He refused to share a platform with Tories because his reasons for Remain were nothing to do with theirs. From his perspective to share space with them would water down the arguments they were each putting forward.

For me the fact that was the right thing to do was brought home when I saw photos of Galloway and Farage together - I remember thinking 'is this what it has come to?'


'Under challenge' - that made me smirk. It's a discussion. 'Under challenge'!!!


7/10 - honesty. Gasp, shock horror - a politician being honest. There were representatives of the Labour Party that were much more than 7/10 and they were more prominent on TV. Makes sense. Corbyn toured the country. Many more people engage with him in those environs than they do with most (all?) other UK politicians. He wasn't willing to go on TV and pretend that the EU was the promised land and 'it's not great but we are better off in than we are out' was not sexy enough for TV.

All the more reason to share a platform with them. He would have been able to show that there was an alternative reason for voting remain other than the scare mongering they were putting out. From his personal perspective he would have been able to show that he was different to them.
 

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