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Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

Forums New posts
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
I think it's a bit sad when ex Labour voters are chomping at the bit to find fault whenever they can. There is no way that in David Cameron's seat that votes will shift from the Conservatives to Labour, the message to the government would always be a shift in votes to the Liberals and will include tactical votes from Labour voters too.


Just so we are all clear in advance - Labour voters will vote Lib Dem in Richmond too as an anti Zac vote. So no one should be surprised or pretend that it is significant for Labour when that happens.
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Let's also be clear here. Labour lost their percent of the vote even though the tories lost a huge percent of their vote. I don't see that as a good thing. I think you need to read this:

Open Labour

Labour’s current position in the opinion polls is disastrous. This isn’t written as a counsel of despair, but because we have to recognise political reality if we are going to turn it around. In the latest YouGov opinion poll, the Tories are on 42%; Labour languish at 26%. In this month’s opinion polls, Labour are consistently polling below 30% while the Tories are consistently above 40%

For some dedicated Labour loyalists, there is an understandable reluctance to accept such terrible polling as accurate. Unfortunately this undermines any efforts to turn it around, particularly when any call to address Labour’s challenges is treated as treachery by some.
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After last year’s polling rout, some pundits suggested we should have focused more on polling that showed Ed Miliband far behind David Cameron as preferred Prime Minister. According to current polling, when asked to choose who would make the best Prime Minister, Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn, or Unsure, Corbyn comes third (May on 51%, Unsure on 31%, Corbyn on 18%). In a general election, that could mean a soft Labour vote including either mass defections to the Tories, 0r a depressed Labour turnout.
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Corduroy is currently polling below the undecideds! Bury your head in the sand if you want...but let's not pretend he's any good at this.
 
londonblue said:
Let's also be clear here. Labour lost their percent of the vote even though the tories lost a huge percent of their vote. I don't see that as a good thing. I think you need to read this:

Open Labour





Corduroy is currently polling below the undecideds! Bury your head in the sand if you want...but let's not pretend he's any good at this.
Click to expand...
Is Open Labour the one that Blunket is funding or is that Labour Together or is it Progress? I follow Progress on Twitter and they apparently have 26,000 followers but the most retweets I have ever seen is 7. I often ask them genuine questions and never get a reply. These outfits are so 'Life of Brian'.

Corbyn has won two leadership elections by large margins. The fact the second one happened has wiped out the opinion polling increases Labour had achieved so we had to start again. What has changed is that Corbyn seems stronger than before. And May seems weak. She swerves questions at PMQs and while you can get away with it to an extent that is seeming to be her only method and political commentators are broadly in agreement that Corbyn has 'won' all of the debates in PMQs since Parliament was recalled. grammar schools, her approach to leaving the EU, NHS failings, mental health provision, support for the steel industry, selling arms to Saudi Arabia - Corbyn is winning against May in Parliament on all of these. And though most people don't watch PMQs the press take note and there are signs that they are starting to be more sympathetic to Corbyn. Sadiq Khan was slaughtered in the London press day in day out in the run up to that election and now is considered a London treasure. Maybe the press see that they can only be OTT anti Corbyn for so long before admitting that May is failing and he is the one pointing out her failings. 2nd leadership election was a spanner in the works - recovery from that will be slow going but there are signs that it is heading in the right direction. But you won't see those signs in Witney or Richmond because Labour sympathizers will vote Lib Dem there as an anti Tory vote.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
Is Open Labour the one that Blunket is funding or is that Labour Together or is it Progress? I follow Progress on Twitter and they apparently have 26,000 followers but the most retweets I have ever seen is 7. I often ask them genuine questions and never get a reply. These outfits are so 'Life of Brian'.

Corbyn has won two leadership elections by large margins. The fact the second one happened has wiped out the opinion polling increases Labour had achieved so we had to start again. What has changed is that Corbyn seems stronger than before. And May seems weak. She swerves questions at PMQs and while you can get away with it to an extent that is seeming to be her only method and political commentators are broadly in agreement that Corbyn has 'won' all of the debates in PMQs since Parliament was recalled. grammar schools, her approach to leaving the EU, NHS failings, mental health provision, support for the steel industry, selling arms to Saudi Arabia - Corbyn is winning against May in Parliament on all of these. And though most people don't watch PMQs the press take note and there are signs that they are starting to be more sympathetic to Corbyn. Sadiq Khan was slaughtered in the London press day in day out in the run up to that election and now is considered a London treasure. Maybe the press see that they can only be OTT anti Corbyn for so long before admitting that May is failing and he is the one pointing out her failings. 2nd leadership election was a spanner in the works - recovery from that will be slow going but there are signs that it is heading in the right direction. But you won't see those signs in Witney or Richmond because Labour sympathizers will vote Lib Dem there as an anti Tory vote.
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And there you have it. Instead of addressing the issues, you attack the authors. If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend all is rosy in the Corduroy garden you go ahead and do that, but at some point in the future you'll be hit with a serious dose of reality.
 
londonblue said:
And there you have it. Instead of addressing the issues, you attack the authors. If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend all is rosy in the Corduroy garden you go ahead and do that, but at some point in the future you'll be hit with a serious dose of reality.
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the authors are some faceless splitters as I pointed out.
But I'm not faceless - my papermache face is clearly shown and yet you have not addressed what I have said....

I'm not burying my head, I'm fully aware of the issues and I am fully aware that Labour were fighting a leadership contest at the point where they should have been fighting the Tories and the damage that has caused takes time to recover from in order to assess Corbyn fairly.
 
Yet another odd performance from Jezza when the press asked did he fancy taking on May in the GE.


Odd bloke abetted by even odder goafers.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
Is Open Labour the one that Blunket is funding or is that Labour Together or is it Progress? I follow Progress on Twitter and they apparently have 26,000 followers but the most retweets I have ever seen is 7. I often ask them genuine questions and never get a reply. These outfits are so 'Life of Brian'.

Corbyn has won two leadership elections by large margins. The fact the second one happened has wiped out the opinion polling increases Labour had achieved so we had to start again. What has changed is that Corbyn seems stronger than before. And May seems weak. She swerves questions at PMQs and while you can get away with it to an extent that is seeming to be her only method and political commentators are broadly in agreement that Corbyn has 'won' all of the debates in PMQs since Parliament was recalled. grammar schools, her approach to leaving the EU, NHS failings, mental health provision, support for the steel industry, selling arms to Saudi Arabia - Corbyn is winning against May in Parliament on all of these. And though most people don't watch PMQs the press take note and there are signs that they are starting to be more sympathetic to Corbyn. Sadiq Khan was slaughtered in the London press day in day out in the run up to that election and now is considered a London treasure. Maybe the press see that they can only be OTT anti Corbyn for so long before admitting that May is failing and he is the one pointing out her failings. 2nd leadership election was a spanner in the works - recovery from that will be slow going but there are signs that it is heading in the right direction. But you won't see those signs in Witney or Richmond because Labour sympathizers will vote Lib Dem there as an anti Tory vote.
Click to expand...

May's unimpressive at PMQT but that's not because of Corbyn as she's poor against all comers. The SNP bloke (Angus Robertson?) does a far better job of holding the government to account but has less of a platform.

Whilst Corbyn's improved (ie from terrible to merely poor) he's still far too easily brushed aside. May will be on the ropes and he changes tack and let's her off.

The Corbyn leadership is a disaster for Labour, and for the country. If you don't see that it's because you're too caught up in the Corbynista bubble. This Tory government doesn't know what it's doing but is actually gaining ground in the country outside of your Corbynista echo chamber. If the party is interested in pursuing power and relevance rather than winning internal battles about purity it needs to ditch Corbyn and Momentum.

Sadiq is a London treasure only because he's not Corbyn and offers hope that there could be an actual opposition if only they lose their useless leader.
 
PMQ is theatre and although it has it's place in getting more people interested in current affairs it is NOT a barometer to be used as the sole judge of a persons effectiveness as a political leader.
JC has the easy part as he has the prepared questions and the answers that he wants to be part of the reply.
MAY knows the questions and answers that are scripted,
QED it is Theatre and a judge on speech and body language (acting) skills.

An unrehearsed PMQ style discussion would be much better; and would likely be a format where MAY would be improved and JC made to look light weight.
 
Yorkshire Blue said:
May's unimpressive at PMQT but that's not because of Corbyn as she's poor against all comers. The SNP bloke (Angus Robertson?) does a far better job of holding the government to account but has less of a platform.

Whilst Corbyn's improved (ie from terrible to merely poor) he's still far too easily brushed aside. May will be on the ropes and he changes tack and let's her off.

The Corbyn leadership is a disaster for Labour, and for the country. If you don't see that it's because you're too caught up in the Corbynista bubble. This Tory government doesn't know what it's doing but is actually gaining ground in the country outside of your Corbynista echo chamber. If the party is interested in pursuing power and relevance rather than winning internal battles about purity it needs to ditch Corbyn and Momentum.

Sadiq is a London treasure only because he's not Corbyn and offers hope that there could be an actual opposition if only they lose their useless leader.
Click to expand...
May is very poor but you can only beat what is put in front of you. Yes he does get her on the ropes but the structure of PMQs is such that he has limited time and there are often numerous government **** ups that week to try to squeeze into the time allowed.
I'm not in a Corbynista bubble, I think you must be mixing me up with someone else.

I canvassed a lot for Sadiq and yes I agree he probably is a leader of the future but mainly because of the media attitude to him. They threw everything they could at him and he still won. I think at that point they acknowledged they may as well get on board as the public had spoken and they would gain little from keep attacking him.

Worth noting that Sadiq benefitted massively from Corbyn being elected leader. Corbyn's election doubled the membership and I canvassed with lots of people that had not been involved in the party for years. Corbyn brought them in and Sadiq benefitted from the volume of canvassers that generated. With the press being so anti Sadiq at that point the volume of people doing the donkey work for him was a help in evening out available resources.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
May is very poor but you can only beat what is put in front of you. Yes he does get her on the ropes but the structure of PMQs is such that he has limited time and there are often numerous government **** ups that week to try to squeeze into the time allowed.
I'm not in a Corbynista bubble, I think you must be mixing me up with someone else.

I canvassed a lot for Sadiq and yes I agree he probably is a leader of the future but mainly because of the media attitude to him. They threw everything they could at him and he still won. I think at that point they acknowledged they may as well get on board as the public had spoken and they would gain little from keep attacking him.

Worth noting that Sadiq benefitted massively from Corbyn being elected leader. Corbyn's election doubled the membership and I canvassed with lots of people that had not been involved in the party for years. Corbyn brought them in and Sadiq benefitted from the volume of canvassers that generated. With the press being so anti Sadiq at that point the volume of people doing the donkey work for him was a help in evening out available resources.
Click to expand...

He benefited more from being able to distance himself from Corbyn.

eg http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-08/khan-distances-himself-from-corbyn-in-race-to-be-london-mayor and http://www.cityam.com/237444/london-mayoral-election-2016-jeremy-corbyns-allies-say-mayoral-candidate-sadiq-khan-is-hostile-to-labour-leader
 
Yorkshire Blue said:
He benefited more from being able to distance himself from Corbyn.

eg http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...imself-from-corbyn-in-race-to-be-london-mayor and http://www.cityam.com/237444/london...didate-sadiq-khan-is-hostile-to-labour-leader
Click to expand...
The right wing press were trying to put everything on him that they were holding against Corbyn on top of everything they could twist from him being Muslim and a human rights lawyer. He wanted to be judged on his own actions and policies.

He benefitted from the massive influx of members that came with Corbyn's leadership - I saw the results of that first hand.
 
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