Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Benfleet A1]

That could be the understatement of the thread! Conflict? More like mayhem, destroying Labour, undermining any credible opposition, losing (further) the trust of millions of voters, threatening the very fabric of democracy, almost Armageddon; or have I gone too far the other way?

Maybe just a tad with the armageddon bit but I get your drift.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That could be the understatement of the thread! Conflict? More like mayhem, destroying Labour, undermining any credible opposition, losing (further) the trust of millions of voters, threatening the very fabric of democracy, almost Armageddon; or have I gone too far the other way?

for me its disgraceful that new members since January are not allowed to vote - but 184,000 people (on top of pre-Jan members) have paid £25 each to be able to vote in the party election. In the space of 48 hours Labour can must up more extra bodies to get involved in the party than the Tories have in total. No matter what **** is going down people love the Labour Party it seems.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

for me its disgraceful that new members since January are not allowed to vote - but 184,000 people (on top of pre-Jan members) have paid £25 each to be able to vote in the party election. In the space of 48 hours Labour can must up more extra bodies to get involved in the party than the Tories have in total. No matter what **** is going down people love the Labour Party it seems.

So why didn't they win the election? And why are they certain to lose the next one? Because socialism doesn't work. Go to Venezuela and check it out.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So why didn't they win the election? And why are they certain to lose the next one? Because socialism doesn't work. Go to Venezuela and check it out.

Mostly because the Scots switched to the SNP. The massive increase in party membership has come since the general election, and the 184,000 extra activists has been in the last 48 hours.

I don't have the funds to visit Venezuela - my eldest daughter has just got her Uni loan figure through and its less than her rent - so South American travel will have to be sidelined.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Mostly because the Scots switched to the SNP. The massive increase in party membership has come since the general election, and the 184,000 extra activists has been in the last 48 hours.

I don't have the funds to visit Venezuela - my eldest daughter has just got her Uni loan figure through and its less than her rent - so South American travel will have to be sidelined.

So Labour were relying on the votes of the Celtic fringes to pacify the English who overwhelmingly rejected them?

I'm not sure why your daughter needs to go to university btw, she could stay home and be indoctrinated with left-wing crap.

 

[callan]

for me its disgraceful that new members since January are not allowed to vote - but 184,000 people (on top of pre-Jan members) have paid £25 each to be able to vote in the party election. In the space of 48 hours Labour can must up more extra bodies to get involved in the party than the Tories have in total. No matter what **** is going down people love the Labour Party it seems.

I actually believed after Miliband things couldn't get any worse, and that perhaps Corbyn could possibly offer something different, and return the Labour party back to represent the people it was originally designed for.

Incompetence, disloyalty, disunity, alongside anti semitism and homophobia have appeared on Corbyn's watch, and his cabinet and Mp's are deserting him in droves.

I don't doubt your claims on an increased membership, but we all know deep down it will be not be enough and the Labour party is in danger of opening a rift not only between the Membership and its elected MPs but also between itself and it's core vote who haven't joined the stampede to become part of the Circus.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So Labour were relying on the votes of the Celtic fringes to pacify the English who overwhelmingly rejected them?

I'm not sure why your daughter needs to go to university btw, she could stay home and be indoctrinated with left-wing crap.

Maybe you have been away so long that you have forgotten but Parliament is for the UK so that means Scotland has MPs too.
She could just stay at home but she is looking to broaden her horizons, I'll pass on your suggestion though.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I actually believed after Miliband things couldn't get any worse, and that perhaps Corbyn could possibly offer something different, and return the Labour party back to represent the people it was originally designed for.

Incompetence, disloyalty, disunity, alongside anti semitism and homophobia have appeared on Corbyn's watch, and his cabinet and Mp's are deserting him in droves.

I don't doubt your claims on an increased membership, but we all know deep down it will be not be enough and the Labour party is in danger of opening a rift not only between the Membership and its elected MPs but also between itself and it's core vote who haven't joined the stampede to become part of the Circus.

'claims' - the numbers are what they are. 'Circus' - I can't be arsed if we are not going to discuss properly.
There is a rift between what the membership wants and what many Labour MPs want but the membership has increased massively and dwarfs any other party so make of that what you want. Those are facts the rest is just interpretation.

 

[callan]

'claims' - the numbers are what they are. 'Circus' - I can't be arsed if we are not going to discuss properly.
There is a rift between what the membership wants and what many Labour MPs want but the membership has increased massively and dwarfs any other party so make of that what you want. Those are facts the rest is just interpretation.

I'm sorry that you don't feel I am discussing this properly, it is not interpretation that Corbyn has had anti semitism and homophobia come up as major issues on his watch....it is a fact.

As the disunity, disloyalty, Incompetence are also facts in addition too the lack of support he enjoys from former cabinet members and MP's.

The rest of your post is a rather sulky rant, you are clearly tired.

I have unashamedly nicked the following, which sums Labours current situation up perfectly for me.

Corbyn supporters seem to inhabit a peculiar alternative reality, where the sound of incredulous giggling coming from the Tory benches is interpreted as a sign that Corbyn has the government on the run.

Where every limp, mumbled question is hailed as proof of genius, where every predictable ideological cliche is evidence of principled sincerity, and where sympathy with any vicious, anti-democratic, West-hating terrorist group, or the quiet indulgence of anti-semitism, is described as "decency".

The absence of any agreed or coherent policies - in fact, the collapse even of any process for making policy - becomes thoughtful leadership. All unfavourable opinion polls are by definition unreliable and/or merely a symptom of the stupidity of the "sheeple", all unfavourable press reports, even those in Labour-supporting papers, are biased, anyone within the party who criticises Corbyn is dismissed as corrupt and self-serving; and , of course, the most reviled enemies of all...are those who previously led the Labour party to three election victories.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm sorry that you don't feel I am discussing this properly, it is not interpretation that Corbyn has had anti semitism and homophobia come up as major issues on his watch....it is a fact.

As the disunity, disloyalty, Incompetence are also facts in addition too the lack of support he enjoys from former cabinet members and MP's.

The rest of your post is a rather sulky rant, you are clearly tired.

I have unashamedly nicked the following, which sums Labours current situation up perfectly for me.

Corbyn supporters seem to inhabit a peculiar alternative reality, where the sound of incredulous giggling coming from the Tory benches is interpreted as a sign that Corbyn has the government on the run.

Where every limp, mumbled question is hailed as proof of genius, where every predictable ideological cliche is evidence of principled sincerity, and where sympathy with any vicious, anti-democratic, West-hating terrorist group, or the quiet indulgence of anti-semitism, is described as "decency".

The absence of any agreed or coherent policies - in fact, the collapse even of any process for making policy - becomes thoughtful leadership. All unfavourable opinion polls are by definition unreliable and/or merely a symptom of the stupidity of the "sheeple", all unfavourable press reports, even those in Labour-supporting papers, are biased, anyone within the party who criticises Corbyn is dismissed as corrupt and self-serving; and , of course, the most reviled enemies of all...are those who previously led the Labour party to three election victories.

We are all tired sweetheart, no one can sleep in this heat.

If you think incompetence is a fact rather than an opinion then that just throws doubt on your other 'facts'.

Anti semitism was an issue with some new members who were removed. No cases have been reported for months and if you think that the Tories and UKIP don't have more racists in their parties then you are deluded. Homophobia - really? How many Tories voted against equal marriage? The reason the small amount of cases are highlighted is because the Labour Party is the party of equality. Anyone who is still banging on about these few cases really needs to get some more material.

The new material is the disgraceful treatment of recent members - can't be legal. But the outcome is the amount of people willing to pay £25 to vote. Add this to the pre Jan membership and the fact that some unions are using it as a membership drive and those legible to vote may hit 700,000 - that is a significant social movement.

 

[callan]

We are all tired sweetheart, no one can sleep in this heat.

If you think incompetence is a fact rather than an opinion then that just throws doubt on your other 'facts'.

Anti semitism was an issue with some new members who were removed. No cases have been reported for months and if you think that the Tories and UKIP don't have more racists in their parties then you are deluded. Homophobia - really? How many Tories voted against equal marriage? The reason the small amount of cases are highlighted is because the Labour Party is the party of equality. Anyone who is still banging on about these few cases really needs to get some more material.

The new material is the disgraceful treatment of recent members - can't be legal. But the outcome is the amount of people willing to pay £25 to vote. Add this to the pre Jan membership and the fact that some unions are using it as a membership drive and those legible to vote may hit 700,000 - that is a significant social movement.

Sorry but I suspect that if you feel that the current Labour set up is unified despite a Leadership challenge, and the wholesale resignations from the Shadow cabinet and total lack of support from Mp's, then it is not I who is deluded.

Racism has featured quite heavily within the Labour party this year and not only amongst the members, and now Homophobia, your dismissal of this is contemptible.

If you believe that Labour currently can be presented as competent, then I would suggest the heat which you say you are struggling with above... is having a wider impact than just denying you a couple of hours of kip.

What is most interesting though is your last paragraph where you seem to correlate the rise in membership as some sort of success, despite wilfully ignoring the Circus that your party is turning into.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sorry but I suspect that if you feel that the current Labour set up is unified despite a Leadership challenge, and the wholesale resignations from the Shadow cabinet and total lack of support from Mp's, then it is not I who is deluded.

Racism has featured quite heavily within the Labour party this year and not only amongst the members, and now Homophobia, your dismissal of this is contemptible.

If you believe that Labour currently can be presented as competent, then I would suggest the heat which you say you are struggling with above... is having a wider impact than just denying you a couple of hours of kip.

What is most interesting though is your last paragraph where you seem to correlate the rise in membership as some sort of success, despite wilfully ignoring the Circus that your party is turning into.

'contemptible' - such dramatic language.
I never once said the party was unified - maybe try reading what I wrote.
I never said the party is competent - denying members a vote is completely incompetent.

How you can possibly not see a massive increase in membership as a positive is baffling - its as if you want to deny the good things within the party, I wouldn't have expected you need that act of desperation, maybe you are not as convinced as you would like. All other parties will be envious of the level of grass roots support the Labour Party can muster, we just need the established sections of the party to stop seeing that as a threat to the status quo and use it for their own good.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

'contemptible' - such dramatic language.
I never once said the party was unified - maybe try reading what I wrote.
I never said the party is competent - denying members a vote is completely incompetent.

How you can possibly not see a massive increase in membership as a positive is baffling - its as if you want to deny the good things within the party, I wouldn't have expected you need that act of desperation, maybe you are not as convinced as you would like. All other parties will be envious of the level of grass roots support the Labour Party can muster, we just need the established sections of the party to stop seeing that as a threat to the status quo and use it for their own good.

 

[mrsblue]

PM questions was an entertaining watch,

Watching Smith and Eagle sniggering and whispering was vomit enducing ,they are both priceless backstabbers who I hope disappear forever.

May slaughtered Jezza,yet I must admit I'm beginning to warm to him,he has been bullied yet still stands firm.

Labour will either split or one side will join the Libs.

 

[londonblue]

we will never know will we, the media have a big influence on voters and the only thing they have been reporting on re the Labour Party is infighting, no party can win under those circumstances, and no party can win without their membership doing the the donkey work

Actually I think it was nailed on failure.

He's the worst performing leader of the opposition ever, or at least he's pretty close to being. I think I read recently that no leader of the opposition has ever been this far behind in the polls.

 

[callan]

'contemptible' - such dramatic language.
I never once said the party was unified - maybe try reading what I wrote.
I never said the party is competent - denying members a vote is completely incompetent.

How you can possibly not see a massive increase in membership as a positive is baffling - its as if you want to deny the good things within the party, I wouldn't have expected you need that act of desperation, maybe you are not as convinced as you would like. All other parties will be envious of the level of grass roots support the Labour Party can muster, we just need the established sections of the party to stop seeing that as a threat to the status quo and use it for their own good.

So in short... you are now saying as follows?

Labour are incompetent, divided, and have had a recent history of Homophobia + Racism.

Pretty much the same as me, with the difference being I would question what kind of people are being attracted by all of this.
You see it as some sort of vilification that things are going well!

I hope you are recovering from the heat ok, you were clearly struggling.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So in short... you are now saying as follows?

Labour are incompetent, divided, and have had a recent history of Homophobia + Racism.

Pretty much the same as me, with the difference being I would question what kind of people are being attracted by all of this.
You see it as some sort of vilification that things are going well!

I hope you are recovering from the heat ok, you were clearly struggling.

In short if you want a discussion you need to not waste our time by claiming I have said something when I said the opposite.

I disputed your claim that incompetence was a fact in Corbyn and I am calling Labour incompetent in denying new members a vote - not for any other reason.

I say Labour is less racist and homophobic than the Tories and you interpret that as me saying Labour are racist and homophobic.

If you read your own posts then imagine I wrote them that could indicate that you need to keep out if the sun for a while.

A massive increase in party membership is obviously something all parties should embrace. I have no idea why you would dispute that.

 

[callan]

In short if you want a discussion you need to not waste our time by claiming I have said something when I said the opposite.

I disputed your claim that incompetence was a fact in Corbyn and I am calling Labour incompetent in denying new members a vote - not for any other reason.

I say Labour is less racist and homophobic than the Tories and you interpret that as me saying Labour are racist and homophobic.

If you read your own posts then imagine I wrote them that could indicate that you need to keep out if the sun for a while.

A massive increase in party membership is obviously something all parties should embrace. I have no idea why you would dispute that.

Still struggling I see...and now seeking to blame others for your own short comings.

Who is in charge of the Labour party and thus responsible for it's competence?

Who according to Labour MPs and former cabinet members is Incompetent?

I haven't disputed that Labour's membership is growing, if you think that has happened kindly show me where I have done this?

You might enjoy more success if you were to follow your own advice...

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Still struggling I see...and now seeking to blame others for your own short comings.

Who is in charge of the Labour party and thus responsible for it's competence?

Who according to Labour MPs and former cabinet members is Incompetent?

I haven't disputed that Labour's membership is growing, if you think that has happened kindly show me where I have done this?

You might enjoy more success if you were to follow your own advice...

which of my own shortcomings am I blaming others for?

 

[callan]

which of my own shortcomings am I blaming others for?

Always an idea to answer some questions prior to posing your own...