Is it time for action? **VOTE NOW**

[Sherif H]

The talk of administration is interesting.

Why do people think we will go into administration ? Won't Administration will be voluntary so RM will have to call them in, as soon as he does that his other companies will be come insolvent as their main assets (the loans to SUFC) will be worthless . So RM will either have put all of his companies into administration at the same time.

That said, HMRC tried to wind the company up on several occasions , Liquidation would have a knock on effect on all of RMs companies , hence the Associated companies getting loans and then lending it to SUFC.

Administration would leave us with grave questions about where we would play and train , as IIRC B&L is leased by one company, RH owned by another , both of which are likely to be sold to the highest bidder by administrators whose sole brief is to act for the creditors.

Personally I don't think Administration will be a "temporary blip" , I think it will be a short step to Insolvency and that is not a points deduction......

I'm not talking about voluntary - any creditor can petition for administration as far as I am aware, and the one we keep playing perilously with is the HMRC.

Under the Insolvency Act, a winding-up petition can be taken forward if the debting company can be proven unable to pay their outstanding debts, and classified insolvent (we will ignore the fact that each and every one of RM's companies appear to already be insolvent).
In this case, administration would involve a team of third party accountants being brought in to run the non-footballing finances, and systematically pay off creditors by any means possible - the taxman was usually at the top of the list, but the priority system has been abolished, so they can often remain unpaid.

The other key job of these accountants is to aim to pull together a sustainable debt recovery plan to bring the Club back on track, and this usually involves finding a new buyer - this is the point at which we could, in theory, bring in new owners...

 

[southend4ever]

I voted No. I wish for my vote to be changed to Yes.

 

[Firestorm]

I'm not talking about voluntary - any creditor can petition for administration as far as I am aware, and the one we keep playing perilously with is the HMRC.

Under the Insolvency Act, a winding-up petition can be taken forward if the debting company can be proven unable to pay their outstanding debts, and classified insolvent (we will ignore the fact that each and every one of RM's companies appear to already be insolvent).
In this case, administration would involve a team of third party accountants being brought in to run the non-footballing finances, and systematically pay off creditors by any means possible - the taxman was usually at the top of the list, but the priority system has been abolished, so they can often remain unpaid.

The other key job of these accountants is to aim to pull together a sustainable debt recovery plan to bring the Club back on track, and this usually involves finding a new buyer - this is the point at which we could, in theory, bring in new owners...

I must admit I thought that the HMRC had sought winding up orders, and I thought that a granted Winding up order immediately invokes Compulsory liquidation, Then a received , as opposed to and Administrator would come in sell everything off and secure as much as possible for the creditors, I believe liquidation immediately revokes the clubs FL status, so there will be no club as such , for someone to take over

 

[Sherif H]

I must admit I thought that the HMRC had sought winding up orders, and I thought that a granted Winding up order immediately invokes Compulsory liquidation, Then a received , as opposed to and Administrator would come in sell everything off and secure as much as possible for the creditors, I believe liquidation immediately revokes the clubs FL status, so there will be no club as such , for someone to take over

HMRC sought winding-up petitions due to persistent late payment, which would, as you say, ultimately lead to liquidation if successful. In this case, receivers would sell all remaining assets and shut down the original business.

I'm sorry - I should have probably explained better (I'm no expert in this field!), but I was referring to administrators being brought in by the Club, only for them to deem us insolvent, at which point they can take full financial control of the club and market all of it's assets...

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

You people what the Rubins in charge of this club? Give me Ron Martin anyday. #shudder

Oy Vey!

 

[undercovershrimper]

HMRC sought winding-up petitions due to persistent late payment, which would, as you say, ultimately lead to liquidation if successful. In this case, receivers would sell all remaining assets and shut down the original business.

I'm sorry - I should have probably explained better (I'm no expert in this field!), but I was referring to administrators being brought in by the Club, only for them to deem us insolvent, at which point they can take full financial control of the club and market all of it's assets...

But we dont have any assets!

 

[Sherif H]

But we dont have any assets!

Roots Hall...

 

[rlb999]

Roots Hall...

Sold a decade ago.

 

[RobM]

Which companies are there?

Southend United Football Club...who own what?
Roots Hall Limited...who own the stadium I assume.
SEL? Martin Dawn?

 

[Firestorm]

I tbink the last accounts for SUFC ltd showed assets of something like 60k

 

[Blues Heaven]

I tbink the last accounts for SUFC ltd showed assets of something like 60k

A few searches....

SOUTHEND UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED(THE)2ND FLOOR, 45 GROSVENOR ROAD, ST. ALBANS, HERTFORDSHIRE, AL1 3AW
ACTIVE00089767

• Cash: £15.9k
• Net Worth: £-14,359,473

• Assets: £583.4k
• Liabilities: £15.5M

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...S-HALL-LIMITED

MARTIN DAWN PLC

• Cash: £9,817
• Net Worth: £-6,686,112

• Assets: £6.5M
• Liabilities: £16.4M

ROOTS HALL LIMITED2ND FLOOR, 45 GROSVENOR ROAD, ST ALBANS, HERTS, AL1 3AW
ACTIVE03710296

• Cash: £0
• Net Worth: £-666,347

• Assets: £15.1M
• Liabilities: £22.6M

 

[RobM]

A few searches....

SOUTHEND UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED(THE)2ND FLOOR, 45 GROSVENOR ROAD, ST. ALBANS, HERTFORDSHIRE, AL1 3AW
ACTIVE00089767

• Cash: £15.9k
• Net Worth: £-14,359,473

• Assets: £583.4k
• Liabilities: £15.5M

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...S-HALL-LIMITED

MARTIN DAWN PLC

• Cash: £9,817
• Net Worth: £-6,686,112

• Assets: £6.5M
• Liabilities: £16.4M

ROOTS HALL LIMITED2ND FLOOR, 45 GROSVENOR ROAD, ST ALBANS, HERTS, AL1 3AW
ACTIVE03710296

• Cash: £0
• Net Worth: £-666,347

• Assets: £15.1M
• Liabilities: £22.6M

So - we're rolling in it - i.e. debt and brown smelly stuff!

 

[Malcontent]

Isn't there a point where a business is trading whilst insolvent? The governments own definition is when:
a) a company cannot pay its bills when they become due
b) it has more liabilities than assets on its balance sheet

To satisfy these:
- I assume we must be in a position where we're able to service the debt - gate receipts, any TV revenue and money from retail merchandise sales etc?
- there are assets which will offset liabilities - this one seems a bit more tricky. Tangible assets such as a ground we all get, but the assumption is we don't own Roots Hall, or even a part of it. So could this be a value, or perceived value of assets sold, such as Bentley and Payne, and assets to be realised, such as current playing staff?

It does seem astonishing we appear to be trading (and that we're being allowed to) on a whim that is FF.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Could somebody from the 27% that voted "No" give me a rational answer of why they don't think it's a good idea, please ?

 

[Barling Magna]

Why what isn't a good idea? There seem to be lots of suggestions, some sensible, some not so sensible.

 

[rigsby]

Could somebody from the 27% that voted "No" give me a rational answer of why they don't think it's a good idea, please ?

I didn't bother voting but it probably has something to do with the people who are demanding action, you only have to read some of their posts. They have a different moan every week. This week its the chairman, last week the manager. We have had the captain and even the club captain.

The point is some people moan about every thing. Remember their Brown out campaign for the Millwall game, what happened to that. In fact since then the atmosphere at RH has been better, so keep up all the talk and no action boys.

Watching Charlton fans march this week did I feel this fans solidarity, did I f***. I laughed at them. Why because when they finished 7th in the PL, for the younger posters I will repeat that seventh in the PL. Then demanded their manger Alan Curbishley was sacked because he had taken them as far as he could. Well theres some angry fans that were spot on for once.

No we don't know whether BL have pulled out and this £15m in debt figure is just that....A forum invented figure. Remember Bolton were meant to be in £175m debt a year ago but that turned out to be a false. I'll let someone more qualified explain how you load debt onto a football club from your other companies.

Ron Woodley was at the match on Saturday having a meal in the excellent Centre Circle bar. RM even missed his half time tea and biscuit to come and speak to the councillor. Why because they hold the future of the club at the moment. If you want Championship football for more than just one season then FF is the future, who ever owns the club.

Considering where we were when Sturrock arrived we have had some decent times. We punched above our weight to achieve promotion. In the meantime enjoy L1 for what it is and for where we are financially and lets see what the decision is regards FF.

If you are hell bent on a change of Chairman then your absolute best chance is if FF2 gets the go ahead, as the club might just attract interest from another party even before they break ground for the new stadium.

 

[Barling Magna]

I voted No. I wish for my vote to be changed to Yes.[/QUOTE

That's unusual. More people seem to wish their Yes vote was changed to No. Something to do with Boris and the £315 million per week for the NHS that was emblazoned on his bus and has now apparently been denied.......:winking:

 

[rlb999]

Could somebody from the 27% that voted "No" give me a rational answer of why they don't think it's a good idea, please ?

If you can tell me what you're proposing, I'll tell you why it isn't a good idea.

 

[Firestorm]

A few searches....

SOUTHEND UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED(THE)2ND FLOOR, 45 GROSVENOR ROAD, ST. ALBANS, HERTFORDSHIRE, AL1 3AW
ACTIVE00089767

• Cash: £15.9k
• Net Worth: £-14,359,473

• Assets: £583.4k
• Liabilities: £15.5M

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...S-HALL-LIMITED

MARTIN DAWN PLC

• Cash: £9,817
• Net Worth: £-6,686,112

• Assets: £6.5M
• Liabilities: £16.4M

ROOTS HALL LIMITED2ND FLOOR, 45 GROSVENOR ROAD, ST ALBANS, HERTS, AL1 3AW
ACTIVE03710296

• Cash: £0
• Net Worth: £-666,347

• Assets: £15.1M
• Liabilities: £22.6M

Sorry completely mis-recalled the figures , I just remembered the intangible fixed assets section of the Accounts, 53k, which relate to players registration (the tangible fixed assets are 515K)

@ 31/7/15 We had assets of 594K
Stock 17.8k
Current debtors 550k
Over 1 year 10,760
Cash at bank 16K

so that total assets of just over 1 Mil

So in all honesty , were we to start to struggle , the current debtors figure would already have been reduced as at times of hardship the first thing you do is call in the debts so really we would just be looking at stock of 17.8k , and if that is consumables (ie bar or food outlets ) then that is likely to have reduced as companies struggling with cash flow tend to limit how much money is tied up in stock .
The fixed assets are stadium fixtures and fittings which realistically cant be sold whilst we are operating as a football club
Basically , if it goes pop , there is next nothing to sell as , and given the losses per week , probably little scope for an administrator to work with.

Just had a thought, as an indication of our ongoing viability, when the club was really struggling a few years ago, the banks, who to be honest were less risk averse at the time, refused to allow season tickets to be bought on credit cards, because if we went bust , the Credit card companies would have been liable for a partial refund under their protection scheme, but would not have been able to recover it from the club.
As far as I am aware, you can now pay for your season ticket by Credit card, which does tend to intimate that there is currently greater confidence in the club financially

 

[Smiffy]

Can anyone explain this below?

Season ticket monies go directly to Sainsbury, presumably to pay off the "loan"..... or am I reading it incorrectly?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/...c0MWFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0