Is it time for action? **VOTE NOW**

[Tangled up in Blue]

Can anyone explain this?

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...cwYjzYyNCqapmykP3S6lGUiw9x2DIXdTOta0os4CWwAU=

Season ticket monies go directly to Sainsbury, presumably to pay off the "loan"..... or am I reading it incorrectly?

Link is bust Smiffy.

 

[Firestorm]

I didn't bother voting but it probably has something to do with the people who are demanding action, you only have to read some of their posts. They have a different moan every week. This week its the chairman, last week the manager. We have had the captain and even the club captain.

The point is some people moan about every thing. Remember their Brown out campaign for the Millwall game, what happened to that. In fact since then the atmosphere at RH has been better, so keep up all the talk and no action boys.

Watching Charlton fans march this week did I feel this fans solidarity, did I f***. I laughed at them. Why because when they finished 7th in the PL, for the younger posters I will repeat that seventh in the PL. Then demanded their manger Alan Curbishley was sacked because he had taken them as far as he could. Well theres some angry fans that were spot on for once.

No we don't know whether BL have pulled out and this £15m in debt figure is just that....A forum invented figure. Remember Bolton were meant to be in £175m debt a year ago but that turned out to be a false. I'll let someone more qualified explain how you load debt onto a football club from your other companies.

Ron Woodley was at the match on Saturday having a meal in the excellent Centre Circle bar. RM even missed his half time tea and biscuit to come and speak to the councillor. Why because they hold the future of the club at the moment. If you want Championship football for more than just one season then FF is the future, who ever owns the club.

Considering where we were when Sturrock arrived we have had some decent times. We punched above our weight to achieve promotion. In the meantime enjoy L1 for what it is and for where we are financially and lets see what the decision is regards FF.

If you are hell bent on a change of Chairman then your absolute best chance is if FF2 gets the go ahead, as the club might just attract interest from another party even before they break ground for the new stadium.

Whilst I agree with the bulk of your sentiments , I don't think the forum make up figures in the clubs annual accounts, which show the P&L balance @ 31/7/15 as - 15,152,353

 

[Smiffy]

Link is bust Smiffy.

Hopefully fixed now mate..


https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...pdf&download=0

 

[Firestorm]

Can anyone explain this?

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...cwYjzYyNCqapmykP3S6lGUiw9x2DIXdTOta0os4CWwAU=

Season ticket monies go directly to Sainsbury, presumably to pay off the "loan"..... or am I reading it incorrectly?

IIRC Sainsbury advance the bulk of the money to an associated company who in turn loaned it to us, that was secured against land owned, I believe there may have been a further loan , more recently directly to the football club, which may well have been secured against season ticket sales
I remember borrowing against the season ticket sales some years ago, which meant that for a couple of years we were living each season based on the next years season ticket sales, As season ticket sales dropped we were left short and our cash flow really suffered.
I would be disappointed if the club had not learned a lesson from that

EDIT- Smiffys link show that the document concerned does not relate to a separate additional loan

 

[Smiffy]

IIRC Sainsbury advance the bulk of the money to an associated company who in turn loaned it to us, that was secured against land owned, I believe there may have been a further loan , more recently directly to the football club, which may well have been secured against season ticket sales
I remember borrowing against the season ticket sales some years ago, which meant that for a couple of years we were living each season based on the next years season ticket sales, As season ticket sales dropped we were left short and our cash flow really suffered.
I would be disappointed if the club had not learned a lesson from that

Yes, this is what worries me. If anyone can make head or tail of this legal ********, please do let us know


https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...pdf&download=0

 

[Firestorm]

Hopefully fixed now mate..


https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...pdf&download=0

Seen it now

It Relates to the original loan between Sainsbury and RHL , and the subsequent loan between RHL and SUFC
It is additional security on the loan , not anything to do with repayment.

It may be additional security on the previous loan or security for a previously agreed top up loan, that is not made clear, and until we see the accounts to July 2016 it will be largely guesswork

 

[Firestorm]

Yes, this is what worries me. If anyone can make head or tail of this legal ********, please do let us know


https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...pdf&download=0

Its security not repayment, the last time we were repaying the loan with the season ticket sales and then borrowing again to survive the season, a pointless exercise in reality which was largely down to , IIRC deciding to use 2 years (Current and next year ) season ticket sales in an attempt to stay in the Championship

 

[Kevin Hogg]

I am no financial expert and do not know legal terms and conditions.
I do know that if you are loaned money - you generally have to repay it.
However, I am living with the (perhaps blind) hope that Sainsbury's loaned us the money as a downpayment on Roots Hall. As the loanee (Sanisbury) pulled out of the deal - perhaps it in non-returnable?
Or am I being naive?
If I put 5% deposit on a property - then do not fulfill..I lose my 5%.

 

[RobM]

I am no financial expert and do not know legal terms and conditions.
I do know that if you are loaned money - you generally have to repay it.
However, I am living with the (perhaps blind) hope that Sainsbury's loaned us the money as a downpayment on Roots Hall. As the loanee (Sanisbury) pulled out of the deal - perhaps it in non-returnable?
Or am I being naive?
If I put 5% deposit on a property - then do not fulfill..I lose my 5%.

I would imagine a clause would be added to the contract. After all, almost anything can be if both parties agree.

 

[Firestorm]

I am no financial expert and do not know legal terms and conditions.
I do know that if you are loaned money - you generally have to repay it.
However, I am living with the (perhaps blind) hope that Sainsbury's loaned us the money as a downpayment on Roots Hall. As the loanee (Sanisbury) pulled out of the deal - perhaps it in non-returnable?
Or am I being naive?
If I put 5% deposit on a property - then do not fulfill..I lose my 5%.

Have Sainsbury officially pulled out of the deal or have they just put the development on hold ?

 

[Napster]

and until we see the accounts to July 2016 /QUOTE]

so not until 2019 at a guess :winking:

 

[Medway Blue]

I didn't bother voting but it probably has something to do with the people who are demanding action, you only have to read some of their posts. They have a different moan every week. This week its the chairman, last week the manager. We have had the captain and even the club captain.

The point is some people moan about every thing. Remember their Brown out campaign for the Millwall game, what happened to that. In fact since then the atmosphere at RH has been better, so keep up all the talk and no action boys.

Watching Charlton fans march this week did I feel this fans solidarity, did I f***. I laughed at them. Why because when they finished 7th in the PL, for the younger posters I will repeat that seventh in the PL. Then demanded their manger Alan Curbishley was sacked because he had taken them as far as he could. Well theres some angry fans that were spot on for once.

No we don't know whether BL have pulled out and this £15m in debt figure is just that....A forum invented figure. Remember Bolton were meant to be in £175m debt a year ago but that turned out to be a false. I'll let someone more qualified explain how you load debt onto a football club from your other companies.

Ron Woodley was at the match on Saturday having a meal in the excellent Centre Circle bar. RM even missed his half time tea and biscuit to come and speak to the councillor. Why because they hold the future of the club at the moment. If you want Championship football for more than just one season then FF is the future, who ever owns the club.

Considering where we were when Sturrock arrived we have had some decent times. We punched above our weight to achieve promotion. In the meantime enjoy L1 for what it is and for where we are financially and lets see what the decision is regards FF.

If you are hell bent on a change of Chairman then your absolute best chance is if FF2 gets the go ahead, as the club might just attract interest from another party even before they break ground for the new stadium.

If you had bothered to read the club's accounts that have been posted on here numerous times, you'd see that the figure is anything but made-up. Don't let that stand in the way of your contempt for anyone who refuses to wear those rose-tinted specs and agree with you though!

Not sure that we punched above our weight with promotion - thought I heard that we had the 5th largest budget in the division that season. Nevertheless, a great moment after the **** Sturrock inherited. I don't think anyone is questioning that we need FF to get and maintain Championship football, just look at almost any of the clubs who were in our position 10-15 years ago and have since built big new stadiums (Swansea, Hull, Brighton, etc.). But I don't think you have any valid grounds to bitch and moan about many people feeling RM can't deliver the project on his own. To that end, I also think you have zero grounds to moan at people who feel he should give up a slice of the pie. We have been going around and around in circles for some 15 years now and RM has demonstrated that he can't do this alone. I don't necessarily think that he needs to go, but he should seriously consider offering up a slice of the pie now to get in some external funding - whether that external funding is directed towards the footballing side of things so that RM can concentrate on stadium funding or whatever.

 

[flangejackrabbit]

thought I heard that we had the 5th largest budget in the division that season.

7th from what I heard.

 

[Medway Blue]

7th from what I heard.

Hmmm, still. Playoff budget. Got in the playoffs. Won it by the width of a gnat's ****. I'd say that was about right based on our budget.

 

[Shrimpercloud]

Just out of interest, if you look at the accounts (particularly note 3 to the cashflow statement), it shows the amount of cash received from the parent company. Over the last 4 years this has been:
2012 - £417,386
2013 - £979,833
2014 - £2,021,493
2015 - £981,112

Also the accounts make quite clear that no rent has been charged on Roots Hall since 2012 (for some reason £450,000 was charged in 2012, it had not been charged before (I checked back to 2006) or since.)
This isn't Rent that has not been paid and added to the debt. No rent was due for those years.

 

[rigsby]

Hmmm, still. Playoff budget. Got in the playoffs. Won it by the width of a gnat's ****. I'd say that was about right based on our budget.

Nope. If you finish 4th with the 7th best budget, when your income is 11th then you have definitely punched above your weight.

 

[Medway Blue]

Nope. If you finish 4th with the 7th best budget, when your income is 11th then you have definitely punched above your weight.

Budget is what matters. We finished 5th (not 4th) with the 7th best budget. 2 place difference. A club with a playoff budget finished in the playoffs. We'll just have to agree to look at that differently.

 

[rigsby]

If you had bothered to read the club's accounts that have been posted on here numerous times, you'd see that the figure is anything but made-up. Don't let that stand in the way of your contempt for anyone who refuses to wear those rose-tinted specs and agree with you though!

Not sure that we punched above our weight with promotion - thought I heard that we had the 5th largest budget in the division that season. Nevertheless, a great moment after the **** Sturrock inherited. I don't think anyone is questioning that we need FF to get and maintain Championship football, just look at almost any of the clubs who were in our position 10-15 years ago and have since built big new stadiums (Swansea, Hull, Brighton, etc.). But I don't think you have any valid grounds to bitch and moan about many people feeling RM can't deliver the project on his own. To that end, I also think you have zero grounds to moan at people who feel he should give up a slice of the pie. We have been going around and around in circles for some 15 years now and RM has demonstrated that he can't do this alone. I don't necessarily think that he needs to go, but he should seriously consider offering up a slice of the pie now to get in some external funding - whether that external funding is directed towards the footballing side of things so that RM can concentrate on stadium funding or whatever.

RM has never claimed he can. Sainsbury's were on board years ago. Both party's had to wait until the Planning was granted and by then Sainsbury's got cold feet due to market conditions not because of Ron.

What would any Chairman or group of investors done at that stage. You delay to see whether Sainsbury's will go ahead whilst they deliberately slow the process down to give themselves time. As they did with Bristol Rovers. When you finally realise they are messers you find someone else, like BL to fund the project.

BL aren't a charity hence new plans and further Council decisions. Yes the project is delayed but that certainly doesn't mean its dead. Who knows how true the rumours are about BL pulling out but even if they do, The project will still continue Ron or no Ron.

Far from me putting you down its the 'Ron Out' mob mentality that like to silence any alternative views. If you agree with FF it doesn't make you a fan of RM. Nor does the truth mean you wear rose-tinted specs

 

[rigsby]

Budget is what matters. We finished 5th (not 4th) with the 7th best budget. 2 place difference. A club with a playoff budget finished in the playoffs. We'll just have to agree to look at that differently.

No its not its income. Our income put us 11th in L2. Ron and co done well to give the manager a budget of 7th but of course you can't do that indefinitely.

By the way I meant by winning at Wembley it means you get the fourth promotion place.

 

[united we stand]

No its not its income. Our income put us 11th in L2. Ron and co done well to give the manager a budget of 7th but of course you can't do that indefinitely.

By the way I meant by winning at Wembley it means you get the fourth promotion place.

You are both looking at different things IMO

If Phil was given a top seven budget and acheived top seven then he has achieved what he should have done

If our income is 11th then as a club we have punched above our weight and have proabably added to our debt