Is it time for action? **VOTE NOW**

[rigsby]

Ron owns RH site worth possibly 25 million
Ron owns Boots and Laces possibly worth with planning 15 million
Ron owns FF worth ?????

Yep he has played a blinder.

Glad to see its not just players wages you vastly overestimate.

 

[Floval Flyer]

One win and then silence on this thread. Surely this thread was against how the club is run. We all want the team to do well but we're still being run into the ground financially. Action is still needed irrelevant of our form this season.

I'm sure normal service will be resumed after the Bradford game...

 

[Ironshrimper]

Sadly this is all what a sizeable section of supporters worry about. Although only quarter of people who voted in this poll supported the notion that 'It's not the Time for Action'.

The club financially will soon reach breaking point which is certainly not far away and only then I believe that people will wake up and realise that the future of the club is in doubt.

Agree I said stuff before, but some replies must have been X block fans, more happy about winding the away fans up than the club going under, and the bloke who walked on the pitch against Colchester is thier god, nothing else matters....15 million in debt and rising.

 

[Blues Heaven]

Agree I said stuff before, but some replies must have been X block fans, more happy about winding the away fans up than the club going under, and the bloke who walked on the pitch against Colchester is thier god, nothing else matters....15 million in debt and rising.

I think we should have one of those digital clocks like they do in the U.S which counts their national debt.

We must be losing £1,000's every working day!!!!

Debt is rising and the owner financial situation obviously therefore is deteriorating is not a healthy situation when you add together the FF situation and the state of RH.

 

[RHB]

One win and then silence on this thread. Surely this thread was against how the club is run. We all want the team to do well but we're still being run into the ground financially. Action is still needed irrelevant of our form this season.

This thread and a home win aren't mutually inclusive. We been commenting on this issue most of last week, and it may be people have had their say. Not everyone feels the need to re-iterate their comments over and over but no doubt the thread will pick up again during the week.

Sadly this is all what a sizeable section of supporters worry about. Although only quarter of people who voted in this poll supported the notion that 'It's not the Time for Action'.

The club financially will soon reach breaking point which is certainly not far away and only then I believe that people will wake up and realise that the future of the club is in doubt.

One home win will not change the financial position, I recognise that. But a win, home or away, is something to be savoured this season so it's not sad to celebrate it.

 

[mrsblue]

Glad to see its not just players wages you vastly overestimate.

What is your estimate then ?

RH site would hold 250 dwellings of various sizes easily...250k per unit on average equals 75 million.

Over to you.

 

[Firestorm]

The debt is obviously rising.
What action should be taken ? Cut expenditure to makes us self sufficient ? we know that will not work, reduced wages will mean worse players , this will lead to even poorer results thus reduced gates and therefore reduced income.
Increase income, put prices up, more than likely to reduce attendances therefore negating any increase.
Invest money to clear the debt, well given the amount of comments about the Bentley / Payne money going into a "black hole" rather than being invested in the team, that's not going to be popular either....
So what is the action required then ?

 

[Firestorm]

What is your estimate then ?

RH site would hold 250 dwellings of various sizes easily...250k per unit on average equals 75 million.

Over to you.

A development of that size would require a fair element of affordable housing, so an average of 250k in that area seems way out, probably no more than 200k
Take off the demolition and building costs, road and infrastructure costs and a profit margin for the developer its going to seriously reduce the scope for a high sale price for the land

 

[Sherif H]

What is your estimate then ?

RH site would hold 250 dwellings of various sizes easily...250k per unit on average equals 75 million.

Over to you.

The site is contaminated, has diabolical topography (would need extensive groundworks to level), and, if the plan was to flood it with residential dwellings, any planning approval would be subject to massive Section 106 contributions (to improve local amenities, transport and environment etc.). Easier in all reality to leave it as a football stadium.
Only worth what a developer will pay for it - all subjective. Doesn't really have a book value.

 

[RobM]

.......but first, FF has to be built. Is that correct?

if there's millions of profit to be bagged, why hasn't some big investor put the money up already?

 

[Sherif H]

.......but first, FF has to be built. Is that correct?

if there's millions of profit to be bagged, why hasn't some big investor put the money up already?

Because they'd have to buy off our esteemed Chairman first - that would involve paying off all of the Club's/RM's debts to simply restore parity, then paying him his perceived valuation of the FF development, and that could be many tens of millions. Basically, we need him to go to progress, but we can't get rid of him because he has too much vested in this personally, which is directly preventing any likely takeover bid.

 

[Blues Heaven]

Because they'd have to buy off our esteemed Chairman first - that would involve paying off all of the Club's/RM's debts to simply restore parity, then paying him his perceived valuation of the FF development, and that could be many tens of millions. Basically, we need him to go to progress, but we can't get rid of him because he has too much vested in this personally, which is directly preventing any likely takeover bid.

That is the horrendous situation we are in. FF seems as far away from being built as it ever has. RM will not give up on this project and his dream of making a huge windfall if it were and was successful.
RM will continue to try to keep the club alive as long as he can to try and achieve this but sooner rather than later it will all come crashing down and we will be facing disaster.

 

[leeblue]

I want answers. Honest straight talking answers.
How long can the business carry on just piling up mass debt?
Obviously ron can not deliver a new stadium (or at least one he can eventually profit from) so what's the overall plan there, because obviously no one is interested in coming on board.

 

[Barling Magna]

With the pound plummeting there must be some investor in some oil-rich country looking for a football club to play with....... £20 million is worth about 1,000 clam shells now.

 

[Sherif H]

As I've eluded to previously, I honestly think we are in such an unfortunate Catch 22 at the moment, that the best option we can hope for is the short-term pain that administration brings - you'd hope at that point that a consortium could work with the administrators to forge a deal to take control of the club, acquiring it's limited assets at a knock-down price.

 

[Blues Heaven]

As I've eluded to previously, I honestly think we are in such an unfortunate Catch 22 at the moment, that the best option we can hope for is the short-term pain that administration brings - you'd hope at that point that a consortium could work with the administrators to forge a deal to take control of the club, acquiring it's limited assets at a knock-down price.

Aminstration of our club is a distinct possibility and we all should start to realise this. I would hope before that becomes a reality RM has the sense to act prior to this and not blindly continue as he is. The ramifications for the club and he himself are extremely serious.

Our actual assets are limited and their worth are not what people believe and the vulture's will soon enough start hovering once news of our demise begins to filter out.

Amindistration would mean a 12 point deduction however would give a supporters trust first option.

I am sure a consortium would be the more likely option and there would be interest without doubt.

 

[MK Shrimper]

You people what the Rubins in charge of this club? Give me Ron Martin anyday. #shudder

 

[united we stand]

Following on from some decent discussion in this thread - http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/show...ate-The-clubs-dire-situation-what-can-be-done with regards to the clubs situation off the pitch. Do you feel after 16 years, no new stadium and £15m in the red, it is now time to voice disapproval at RM and the board of Directors?

Obviously it would have to be the right type of action, clear, concise and calculated...200 shouting abuse in the car park is pointless. That is a discussion for another time. But, in theory do you feel action is warranted and would you support action?

Discuss and vote either way. We need a clear picture on the feeling of the fanbase (well a % of it at least)

Those of you in favour, hop on the other thread and list out some key reasons why you feel action is justified.

This will need planning
A disorganised rabble hurling time honoured cliches will just make us look like any other group of football fans who start moaning when results go against them so, Lets ha e a list of atangible things that need to be done and as the list grows anyone who can assist in a heiving that goal can add their name and the assistance they can provide.
Can someone who is drving the idea start with a few of the objectives they have in mind .

If I was forced to vote this very second, I would vote 'no' because there is no definition of what "action" is to be taken.

I will not be party to protesting, sit-ins, match boycotting or any physical activity (legal or otherwise) against the club/players/staff/board/etc, whether on or off the pitch, on or not on match days.

For me, "action" has to be dialog between the club hierarchy and "the fans", or representatives of the fans (the Trust). But for that dialog to be meaningful, two-way discussion, we (the fans) need to have something meaningful to bring to the table. I'm afraid I don't see what that something is.

When issues such as this thread covers arise it is because sufficient Southend supporters feel very strongly about the future of the club. Of course if any action is taken running costs will need to be covered and that is where those that really want to see some changes will have to put their money where their mouths are. How many will do that, I don't know. All of that said,

Is it unreasonable that genuine supporters want to know what progress there has been made on building a new ground?
Is it unreasonable that supporters want to know what the financial viability of the club is if FF doesn't happen?
Is it unreasonable to know whether there is anything they can help with to achieve progress?
Is it unreasonable to know if there are other approaches that could be taken?
Is it unreasonable to want to know some information rather than nothing at all?

I think all of these things are very reasonable, and that is why threads like these begin life. We may be completely rubbish at organising anything, but doesn't mean that all those concerns arn't genuine.

It'd be nice to know what the aim of this protest is. If it's to get Ron out I'm voting no, Ron isn't a good chairman but I'd take him over Orient or Blackpool's owners anyday and those types are the only ones that will be interested in taking over a club £15m in debt. Unless there's evidence of a credible buyer waiting for a sign that the club is for sale I don't think there's much point in protesting, it's not like Ron is intentionally making us lose money so he's not going to suddenly do a better job because it. All it will do is unsettle the squad more than they already are.

I have chosen a few posts , but could have quoted plenty more.

I am guessing that a lot of people have not voted 'yes' as they are thinking 'what am I voting for' Some people have immediately interrupted this as a 'Ron out' protest, others as simply ' It would be great to be told what is going on'.

Many people have stated that Ron won’t tell us anything as its commercially sensitive. I agree with that to a point , but I am also a firm believer in 'if you don’t ask you don’t get'.

As a complete aside, we are to an extent our own worst enemy . So many people (myself included) can't recall exactly what has /has not been reported on in the past, what is fact, what is simply untrue , and what is a rumour with founding, or just a rumour with no founding. This means that we waste lots of energy going over old ground on things . It would be really good if we had a 'fossets timeline ' thread where we could add what we do know, with links to threads and newspaper articles. Maybe something for someone with a little bit of time to start off ?

 

[Sherif H]

I have chosen a few posts , but could have quoted plenty more.

I am guessing that a lot of people have not voted 'yes' as they are thinking 'what am I voting for' Some people have immediately interrupted this as a 'Ron out' protest, others as simply ' It would be great to be told what is going on'.

Many people have stated that Ron won’t tell us anything as its commercially sensitive. I agree with that to a point , but I am also a firm believer in 'if you don’t ask you don’t get'.

As a complete aside, we are to an extent our own worst enemy . So many people (myself included) can't recall exactly what has /has not been reported on in the past, what is fact, what is simply untrue , and what is a rumour with founding, or just a rumour with no founding. This means that we waste lots of energy going over old ground on things . It would be really good if we had a 'fossets timeline ' thread where we could add what we do know, with links to threads and newspaper articles. Maybe something for someone with a little bit of time to start off ?

The most crucial dollop of clarity we require at present is confirmation (either way) as to British Land's involvement in the FF project. If, as some have suggested, they have pulled out, then we really are in a very serious predicament.

 

[Firestorm]

The talk of administration is interesting.

Why do people think we will go into administration ? Won't Administration will be voluntary so RM will have to call them in, as soon as he does that his other companies will be come insolvent as their main assets (the loans to SUFC) will be worthless . So RM will either have put all of his companies into administration at the same time.

That said, HMRC tried to wind the company up on several occasions , Liquidation would have a knock on effect on all of RMs companies , hence the Associated companies getting loans and then lending it to SUFC.

Administration would leave us with grave questions about where we would play and train , as IIRC B&L is leased by one company, RH owned by another , both of which are likely to be sold to the highest bidder by administrators whose sole brief is to act for the creditors.

Personally I don't think Administration will be a "temporary blip" , I think it will be a short step to Insolvency and that is not a points deduction......