How many games does Brown have to end the rut

[thenobster]

no.. something about him i could never take to

Not even after the promotion the season before last???

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Its not just about training, its whether the players are creative or not. Atkinson Timlin and Leonard arent creative players. Leonard is capable of getting goals, but I dont see him as a creative midfielder. We have had plenty of industrious midfielders, but always lacking the creative player who can make things happen in the final third. Im not sure thats something you can train into the players we have.

Maher wasnt particularly creative, he could pick out a pass at times, but most of the time he passed sideways too, but we normally had a player he could bring into play who could actually do something, like Gower. On Saturday you'd see a midfielder get the ball and other than hoofing it into the box I just couldnt see anyone he could give it to that would get forward with it and at least get a cross in. I don't remember one midfielder trying to pass through to a forward, nor thinking any of them actually had the ability to do so.

So they just passed it back or sideways as had no idea what to do.

We had no real wide threat, even the forwards whilst making runs had no pace to run channels or get into wide places to spread the play.

This is down to PB. He picks the team

 

[mattitouk]

I think we could do a lot worse than Phil, and I seem to be one of the few that are not taking last seasons results into account, when judging him. That was in the previous season, which as far as I'm concerned is in the past and doesn't mean a thing to me, after the referee blew the final whistle on the last game of the season, we have since hit the "reset button".

Our clubs official goal was not to get relegated and head straight back into League 2, we obviously achieved that.

I also think the players were no where near as committed towards the last games of the season, once it became mathematically impossible for us to reach the play off's or to get relegated either, they were already planning on which foreign beach holiday to book.

However, that being said, I can understand the frustration and agree with some of the valid points that have been raised on here, and Phil must be accountable for a lot of the actions that have happened since he has been with us (both positive and negative).

Going back to my original point, I am going to purely judge him only on this season alone. So only 1 game so far.

In terms of how much longer would I give Brown to the end the rut?....I think giving him about 1/3rd of the season to fix the current issues seems about fair enough to me.

If we are still in the relegation mix by say full time after the home game to Shrewsbury on Saturday the 29th October, I think it's time to say cheerio and bring in a managerial change.

I specifically picked that date as it currently seems we have a 2 week break from any professional fixtures, which will give any new incoming manager time to analyse whatever current players we will have in the team before his 1st fixture in charge away to Bury on Saturday 12th November.

As well as giving the new manager enough time (ie: the remaining two thirds of the season) to prove himself to the club, that he can help us avoid relegation.

All being said, I'm forever the optimist & believe this is just a minor blip on the SUFC radar, and that the results will pick up and we will still finish somewhere between 9th and 13th.

 

[rigsby]

This is down to PB. He picks the team

Who would you have picked on Saturday instead of the 4 mid-fielders we started with.

 

[LBBlue]

Who would you have picked on Saturday instead of the 4 mid-fielders we started with.

That's the point - there isn't any one else. I thought that he picked the strongest 11 on Saturday and they capitulated hopelessly in the second half. Brown has acquired and retained players who are consistently not good enough to trouble the opposition. Added to that too many individual mistakes cost us dearly yet again.

 

[Floval Flyer]

i think we need to draw a line under the end of last season, it's history - time to move on.

The new squad players will come good I am sure, I am an firm advocate of Phil Brown, and I would be surprised if Cox would have signed for us without his influence, I also believe he has the charisma to tame Ranger and get Simpson in, then we will have no problems in the goal dept. If he can convince the Spurs lad to join as CB then happy days...

One game - one defeat, yeah, 2nd half was a POS - however opening 35 was encouraging. If PB is the man motivator he claims to be he can put this right, sign Simpson, get Ranger, Timlin and Wordsworth fit, and sign a CB and we should be OK

I would expect RM to reassess the situation 16 to 18 games in, although still think we'll lose again tomorrow night. But we're gonna take Port Vale :smile:

 

[KiwiRob]

Floval Flyer, I largely share your assessment. I think PB is rebuilding the side and it may take until September before we get a real improvement. However, I am concerned about the lack of height at the back and while Dominic Ball is probably a great defender he is not taller than our existing centre-backs.

I also think Sokolik could be an important player for us this season if he stays focused and gets some first team action.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

i think we need to draw a line under the end of last season, it's history - time to move on.

The new squad players will come good I am sure, I am an firm advocate of Phil Brown, and I would be surprised if Cox would have signed for us without his influence, I also believe he has the charisma to tame Ranger and get Simpson in, then we will have no problems in the goal dept. If he can convince the Spurs lad to join as CB then happy days...

One game - one defeat, yeah, 2nd half was a POS - however opening 35 was encouraging. If PB is the man motivator he claims to be he can put this right, sign Simpson, get Ranger, Timlin and Wordsworth fit, and sign a CB and we should be OK

I would expect RM to reassess the situation 16 to 18 games in, although still think we'll lose again tomorrow night. But we're gonna take Port Vale :smile:

It's ok having good strikers but if they aren't getting the ball, they can't score

 

[pbdream]

It's ok having good strikers but if they aren't getting the ball, they can't score

Eastwood used to manage it. Went and got the ball himself and then ran most the pitch and scored...who's Grays' top scorer? Let's just sign him. It's easy this football management lark.

 

[LennySUFC]

Let's face it a team can lose and play well and you walk away upset because we were unlucky..
on the flip side there's losing and playing so badly you question players desire to wear the shirt

theres been far to many of the latter for me plus Browns desire to talk about every managerial vacancy under the sun!

Having said this, I will allow brown the time to finish in this window before making a decision on him purely as if we sign Simpson, Ball and someone else it could be the difference...
if we do sign them and we are still **** then we can only point the finger at one man and his boring defensive tactics

 

[Taters123]

Both Leeds and Rangers looking to sign Ball so we have no hope there

 

[Magnum PI]

What's worrying me most is that the club seem to think we have the defensive situation in order. A few young centre half was offered to the club by agent this week and the response was that they are not looking for players in that position. It means one of two things I guess. There is strengthening lined up already or Brown thinks we are fine. I don't mind the option of score more than we concede, but you have to set up differently in midfield to enable that.
Second half against Gills we clearly missed a proper defensive midfielder. JET had the run of the park. This for me is more important than the centre halves who were cruelly exposed time and time again.

 

[Floval Flyer]

Second half against Gills we clearly missed a proper defensive midfielder. JET had the run of the park. This for me is more important than the centre halves who were cruelly exposed time and time again.

Allowing JET the space he was given proved to be our downfall, starting with the equaliser. Gillingham did a 'job' on Cox as they rightly sighted him as our danger man. We should have done the same on JET. We'll see if we've learnt anything from that tonight.

 

[Jai]

I think we could do a lot worse than Phil, and I seem to be one of the few that are not taking last seasons results into account, when judging him. That was in the previous season, which as far as I'm concerned is in the past and doesn't mean a thing to me, after the referee blew the final whistle on the last game of the season, we have since hit the "reset button".

Our clubs official goal was not to get relegated and head straight back into League 2, we obviously achieved that.

I also think the players were no where near as committed towards the last games of the season, once it became mathematically impossible for us to reach the play off's or to get relegated either, they were already planning on which foreign beach holiday to book.

However, that being said, I can understand the frustration and agree with some of the valid points that have been raised on here, and Phil must be accountable for a lot of the actions that have happened since he has been with us (both positive and negative).

Going back to my original point, I am going to purely judge him only on this season alone. So only 1 game so far.

In terms of how much longer would I give Brown to the end the rut?....I think giving him about 1/3rd of the season to fix the current issues seems about fair enough to me.

If we are still in the relegation mix by say full time after the home game to Shrewsbury on Saturday the 29th October, I think it's time to say cheerio and bring in a managerial change.

I specifically picked that date as it currently seems we have a 2 week break from any professional fixtures, which will give any new incoming manager time to analyse whatever current players we will have in the team before his 1st fixture in charge away to Bury on Saturday 12th November.

As well as giving the new manager enough time (ie: the remaining two thirds of the season) to prove himself to the club, that he can help us avoid relegation.

All being said, I'm forever the optimist & believe this is just a minor blip on the SUFC radar, and that the results will pick up and we will still finish somewhere between 9th and 13th.

We'll have the FA Cup 1st round fixture on the 5th. I also don't believe we have hit the reset button, since everything that went wrong on Saturday was the same as the issues we had last season. They have not been addressed and confidence is clearly still fragile given the manner of the capitulation.

 

[southendwill]

get rid ASAP players did not show the slightest interest on saturday

 

[southend4ever]

It's 6 if you count the last 5 games of last season.

That's such a negative way of thinking - embrace the new season, the new team, the new approach (if applicable) and give the man a chance. Looking at it like that is just heaping a load of unnecessary pressure onto the team.

 

[Jam_Man]

That's such a negative way of thinking - embrace the new season, the new team, the new approach (if applicable) and give the man a chance. Looking at it like that is just heaping a load of unnecessary pressure onto the team.

Indeed, we have changed a large part of the team so its not even the same players as back then. So our "current form" doesnt include last season, because its not current.

However it does have to get taken into account that we finished the season poorly when it comes to determining whether Brown gets show the door though. If he had won the last 10 games of last season and lost the first four of this one then he would be given far more leeway.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Indeed, we have changed a large part of the team so its not even the same players as back then. So our "current form" doesnt include last season, because its not current.

However it does have to get taken into account that we finished the season poorly when it comes to determining whether Brown gets show the door though. If he had won the last 10 games of last season and lost the first four of this one then he would be given far more leeway.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, the fact is he didn't, we have been in free fall for a long time.

 

[onceknownasrab]

RM has been historically slow to pull the trigger with managers, which in some cases leads to continuity, but also allows stagnation/degeneration. I suspect the recent extending of PB's contract will mean a meaty severance package and would probably make things very tight. This and potentially other factors will likely lead to RM backing the manager and hoping he comes good rather than moving him out anytime soon. Results may not be enough to force his hand for quite some time.

 

[Floval Flyer]

RM has been historically slow to pull the trigger with managers, which in some cases leads to continuity, but also allows stagnation/degeneration. I suspect the recent extending of PB's contract will mean a meaty severance package and would probably make things very tight. This and potentially other factors will likely lead to RM backing the manager and hoping he comes good rather than moving him out anytime soon. Results may not be enough to force his hand for quite some time.

Basically PB is like RM's wife, expensive to keep, probably more expensive to divorce :-)

And constantly driving him mad...