Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[hlane17]

Presumably if we don’t hear today that the players and football department staff have been paid, we’ll be getting a 12 point deduction?

I looked at the NL rules today and it was not clear on any non-payment of playing staff.

I assume it's up to the NL to decide punishment on this point?

It was patently clear about administration though, which was an immediate 12 point deduction.

 

[jphfitz]

I don't want to fuel speculation, but what if the MD group companies owe a fair chunk of money?

A winding up order suggests these companies are not in the best of health themselves.

If any of those group companies go under then I wonder what would happen to myriad of other reliant/interconnected companies?

Fully agree, I don’t even know if that is potentially a good thing if Martin Dawn get wound up or not (seems an odd thing to say). You would think that the 8th Feb (thanks @The Big Dady ) would give us an indication if the chairman plans to get sort this loan or not. That’s my own personal view and possibly far too simplistic.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Tom cruise is in Basildon maybe he can save us

Thats' sounds like a Mission Impossible to me

 

[Shrimper]

So i have listened to the BBC chat wit rob and carl Now i keep reading the club has got to raise 5 millon by march the 1st .But now im hearing the amount to pat he HRMS is 1.5 millon so what is the true amount Ron has to find .

£1.5m to pay HMRC

Rumoured £2.4m debt to HMRC through Martin Dawn. Don't knoe if this is true

Rest (£1.1m) to run the club

 

[Whispering Bob]

Thats' sounds like a Mission Impossible to me

Oblivion more like.

 

[palexander]

£1.5m to pay HMRC

Rumoured £2.4m debt to HMRC through Martin Dawn. Don't knoe if this is true

Rest (£2.1m) to run the club

WE ARE BORROWING £6m NOW!!!!

 

[onceknownasrab]

Quite clearly we are in a famous creek with no paddle. Many are calling for transparency but, there is a reason you are not privy to all the facts. It's because you cannot help. It is literally none of our business. Ron will be talking to those can can affect change. Those with money on tap. That ain't us. If you want to know everything about a business you had better own it.

I'm not excusing RM. His late paying of wages has put an end to any slack I gave him. What a dreadful mess and awful way to treat people

The upshot is we are fans. We have no right to demand information or anything else.

Good luck to those that propose a phoenix club. I hope your jumpers don't get too muddy being used as goal posts. Right now, loathe RM or not, we need to hope he comes good. We need to look at any possibility of helping him because he is our only hope of keeping what we have alive. If that's too bitter for your palate then find a new trough to chomp at. There is only one SUFC and I prefer to keep it

 

[Wingnut]

So what’s with the Frank lampard senior rumour then

 

[NZamba Legend]

So what’s with the Frank lampard senior rumour then

Was past it in 1985, can't see him being much use for us 30 years on from that. Would be a free agent though

 

[The Big Dady]

Was past it in 1985, can't see him being much use for us 30 years on from that. Would be a free agent though

Can he play in goal?

 

[GBJ]

Fully agree, I don’t even know if that is potentially a good thing if Martin Dawn get wound up or not (seems an odd thing to say). You would think that the 8th Feb (thanks @The Big Dady ) would give us an indication if the chairman plans to get sort this loan or not. That’s my own personal view and possibly far too simplistic.

As always with Ron, it’s never easy or simple.

If MD get wound up next week, it will be seen by some as an indicator that Ron has failed to loan any money to save his own company, casting an even darker cloud over our future.

However, you could put an optimistic spin on it and deduce that maybe Ronald doesn’t actually need MD anymore & has accepted its fate. Maybe he’s ok with seeing it go to the wall, because he’ll be putting all of his time, effort - and most importantly - his financial resources, into the goodship SUFC.

Sounds mad on the face of it, but which of those two companies is likelier to get the FF dream achieved? Does he need MD anymore?

But on the flip side of that, if MD pay their debts and the case is dismissed, some people will take that as a sign of everything being ok, and Ron has no problem acquiring funds.

I won’t be getting giddy with excitement with that result though, simply because it’s Ron ****ing Martin we’re talking about. We’ve all been here long enough to know that just when things start to look on the up, spirits get lifted and hopes are raised… well, we know how that goes. It’d be absolutely classic pantomime villainy for Ron to save his own **** company and send us down the river.

 

[WickfordShrimper]

Meanwhile

Top news on Sky Sports Chelsea sign a player for £107 Million Pounds

This is why I supported Southend United FC and not that greedy Premier****

****ing pay the Tax Bill Ron

 

[TJC]

So what’s with the Frank lampard senior rumour then

Beggers can't be choosers, but please, no!

 

[basilrobbie]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but worth a listen with Trust’s Rob Craven and Carl Reader (starts about 10.34 with some signal issues)

Essex - Listen Live - BBC Sounds

Listen live to BBC Essex on BBC Sounds

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm amazed anyone could think that this constant brinkmanship with HMRC is "dealing with them well".

Quite apart from the stress it causes to employees and local businesses who rely on the club, this is also playing fast and loose with the club's obligations to the national taxpayer. It's thoroughly immoral, and a man who calls himself the custodian of a community asset should be ashamed of himself for behaving in this way.

 

[jphfitz]

I'm amazed anyone could think that this constant brinkmanship with HMRC is "dealing with them well".

Quite apart from the stress it causes to employees and local businesses who rely on the club, this is also playing fast and loose with the club's obligations to the national taxpayer. It's thoroughly immoral, and a man who calls himself the custodian of a community asset should be ashamed of himself for behaving in this way.

I assume the presenter was trying to add some balance and Carl rightly called them out on it.

When the only positive thing someone can say about you, is that you are good at putting off the tax man, it is a bit of an embarrassment!

 

[Shrimper]

Any news on if players and staff were paid today?

 

[hlane17]

Any news on if players and staff were paid today?

Last I heard players were still unpaid.

 

[Smiffy]

Any news on if players and staff were paid today?

No change. As of a few hours ago anyway...

 

[Pak66]

Quite clearly we are in a famous creek with no paddle. Many are calling for transparency but, there is a reason you are not privy to all the facts. It's because you cannot help. It is literally none of our business. Ron will be talking to those can can affect change. Those with money on tap. That ain't us. If you want to know everything about a business you had better own it.

I'm not excusing RM. His late paying of wages has put an end to any slack I gave him. What a dreadful mess and awful way to treat people

The upshot is we are fans. We have no right to demand information or anything else.

Good luck to those that propose a phoenix club. I hope your jumpers don't get too muddy being used as goal posts. Right now, loathe RM or not, we need to hope he comes good. We need to look at any possibility of helping him because he is our only hope of keeping what we have alive. If that's too bitter for your palate then find a new trough to chomp at. There is only one SUFC and I prefer to keep it

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as fans we do have a right to know what is going on at the club. We have been kept in the dark for too many years to mention and Mr Martins total disregard for the Southend fanbase has finally hit the fan. Even if he does a Harry Houdini escape act on this latest debt the line in the sand has been drawn.
The fan groups gathered want Martin out as soon as possible. Join us by all means but please don't make fun of the clubs current situation and possibly the fact as supporters we may have to start the club all over again.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Where did you hear that?

I don't know what the rules are in the National League for non payment of wages but in the EFL I see some teams have had 2 points docked suspended and Macclesfield who did actually had 12 docked but this was all in EFL (different rules)

I thought I recalled that part of the reason the football department were being paid (from long discussions on the Zone from October last year onwards), and the other club staff weren’t, was related to NL rules / sanctions and non-payment of players would lead to an automatic points deduction - but that the sanction didn’t apply in the case of non-football staff.

The 12 points was similarly off the top of my head, hence posing it as a question for the more clued-up Zoners to hopefully respond to. @hlane17 has helpfully looked it up but I think it’s not definitively answered just yet.