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Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

Outcome of HMRC court case 1 March


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This is a real worry, I agree. The thing is, the debt is tied to Southend United FC (the company) isn’t it? Fossetts Farm land and developments aren’t under that company in Ron’s structure I don’t think so if SUFC are wound up the court will come after him for the value of the debt but he could settle that in lots of ways without losing the bulk of the development. I’m not saying he’s looking to do that, but if that happened I’m not sure he loses as much as we might think?
 
…And staff fully paid and up to date. That’s more important than any embargo being lifted.
Agreed. The way I see it even if the club goes under the flats will still get built. That’s where the money is. So I worry that’s the plan now. Let the club collapse and crack on with the development.
 
This is a real worry, I agree. The thing is, the debt is tied to Southend United FC (the company) isn’t it? Fossetts Farm land and developments aren’t under that company in Ron’s structure I don’t think so if SUFC are wound up the court will come after him for the value of the debt but he could settle that in lots of ways without losing the bulk of the development. I’m not saying he’s looking to do that, but if that happened I’m not sure he loses as much as we might think?
Having said that though, if he were to let that happen a) he would be a fool and b) it would have to be an act of spite or financial idiocy. Yes it wouldn’t lose him much today on paper any more than the court debt, but the club in the stadium with no debt would be a very saleable asset. Worth more to him than he’d get flogging a few more flats that where the stadium should have been.

Ron may be a ****, but he knows where the earning opportunities are. Any plan B should, in a sane world, be aiming to trigger before March if it’s needed.
 
This is a real worry, I agree. The thing is, the debt is tied to Southend United FC (the company) isn’t it? Fossetts Farm land and developments aren’t under that company in Ron’s structure I don’t think so if SUFC are wound up the court will come after him for the value of the debt but he could settle that in lots of ways without losing the bulk of the development. I’m not saying he’s looking to do that, but if that happened I’m not sure he loses as much as we might think?
I can’t see how the debt would pushed on to the club, it has no real assets - any lender of a bridging loan would want a cast iron exit point enabling their debt to be repaid. The club has no ability to raise money to fund this repayment (unless we sell Wes Fonguck for £5.1m) so surely the debt will be held in a company tied directly to the development?
 
I can’t see how the debt would pushed on to the club, it has no real assets - any lender of a bridging loan would want a cast iron exit point enabling their debt to be repaid. The club has no ability to raise money to fund this repayment (unless we sell Wes Fonguck for £5.1m) so surely the debt will be held in a company tied directly to the development?
The court case (and debt) is against Southend United FC Limited, not ‘Ron Martin Conglomerates’. If the debt is unpaid the court named company is wound up, not all the companies and all the SUFC owner’s other assets.
 
I can’t see how the debt would pushed on to the club, it has no real assets - any lender of a bridging loan would want a cast iron exit point enabling their debt to be repaid. The club has no ability to raise money to fund this repayment (unless we sell Wes Fonguck for £5.1m) so surely the debt will be held in a company tied directly to the development?
Probably not directly but via an inter company loan. Same effect.
 
Can someone explain the ground situation to me? I feel like I’ve never fully understood it.

Roots Hall was built and owned by the fans. Who were the fans who owned it and how did it end up in RM’s hands? If it was purchased, did that include all the land too and if so, how much was it and where did the money go?
So from what I can gather from the Facebook post on CP’s group… the stadium was funded and built by the fans and later gifted to the club. Ron then sold it to himself for £4m, a year after it had been valued at £10m.

Can anyone confirm that? If that’s true, that’s pretty disgraceful.
 
So from what I can gather from the Facebook post on CP’s group… the stadium was funded and built by the fans and later gifted to the club. Ron then sold it to himself for £4m, a year after it had been valued at £10m.

Can anyone confirm that? If that’s true, that’s pretty disgraceful.

Rigsby I am sure posted some good detail on this. Perhaps he can repost.

There are even more “alternative facts” on that Facebook Group than there are on here…
 
The court case (and debt) is against Southend United FC Limited, not ‘Ron Martin Conglomerates’. If the debt is unpaid the court named company is wound up, not all the companies and all the SUFC owner’s other assets.
True but then what happens to all that inter company debt that I guess would have to be written off? Not without impact/consequences? His group companies are the biggest creditor by far?
 
Rigsby I am sure posted some good detail on this. Perhaps he can repost.

There are even more “alternative facts” on that Facebook Group than there are on here…
Just found these:



So Main was chairman when Martin Dawn were majority shareholders and he sold the ground to them to clear debts?

@rigsby if you wouldn’t mind reposting or pointing me in the right direction it would be appreciated.
 
True but then what happens to all that inter company debt that I guess would have to be written off? Not without impact/consequences? His group companies are the biggest creditor by far?
Hasn’t he committed to wiping that out anyway?
 
Ron doesn't owe HMRC tax (as far as I know anyway), Southend United owes tax. Ron might own us but we're a limited company and the whole point of limited companies is that their taxes are separate from the owner. Unless he's done something like using his personal property as collateral for loans (which wouldn't surprise me, I can't see who would loan us money at the moment without that) Southend can go bust and his personal finances won't be affected.
What is wrongful trading?

Wrongful trading or 'trading irresponsibly' is a civil offence and is covered by section 214 of the Insolvency Act 1986

According to the 1986 Act, it occurs when company directors have continued to trade when:

“They knew, or ought to have concluded that there was no reasonable prospect of avoiding insolvent liquidation”
They did not take “every step with a view to minimising the potential loss to the company’s creditors”

Essentially, directors must be found to have acted reasonably and responsibly in the time preceding the company’s insolvency to avoid wrongful trading proceedings. They must always have put creditors' interests first, and not worked for their own benefit.

If directors are found guilty of wrongful trading, they can be held personally liable for the company’s debts from the point they knew the company was insolvent.

In some cases, they can also be disqualified from being a director, fined or even imprisoned.

What actions constitute wrongful trading?

The liquidator, who must be an insolvency practitioner, determines if wrongful trading has occurred. This occurs during their mandatory assessment of the director’s conduct. There is a six-year limitation period, so you will not be charged after this time has passed.

Examples of behaviour or actions they’ll look for:

Not filing annual returns at Companies House

Failing to file annual or audited accounts at Companies House

Not operating the PAYE scheme correctly, failing to pay PAYE and NIC when due and building up arrears

Failing to operate the VAT scheme correctly and building up arrears

Taking excessive salaries that the company cannot afford
Repaying a director loan made to the company while other creditors were not paid

Trading while insolvent

Taking credit from suppliers when there was ‘no reasonable prospect’ of paying the creditor on time

Wilfully piling up debt

Taking deposits from customers when you know the product or service will not be delivered.

You will be at risk of being accused of wrongful trading if you have engaged in any of the above. To avoid this, you must always act in the creditors' best interest. This even means prioritising their payments over personal and bank guarantees.

It’s important to note that wrongful trading can only apply in terminal insolvency.

Put simply, this means it can only apply when the business is no longer viable. It will only begin after formal insolvency proceedings, such as liquidation or administration.

However, if there is no insolvency event and you still partake in suspicious behaviour, be very careful. Keep records of all actions concerning these points, as well as of board and shareholder meetings. This may protect you in the future.
 
So from what I can gather from the Facebook post on CP’s group… the stadium was funded and built by the fans and later gifted to the club. Ron then sold it to himself for £4m, a year after it had been valued at £10m.

Can anyone confirm that? If that’s true, that’s pretty disgraceful.
Blame that on Vic Jobson not RM
 
Yes post development but not sure now would be very helpful..
I didn’t say it would be. I said if the club did go to the wall, taking its debts with it, Ron might lose less overall than some might think. If he’s losing the inter company debt either way then that won’t be an extra incentive for him - that’s why I didn’t mention it :Winking2:
 
A divided fan base works in Ron's favour - so are they the ones that throw insults or make snide comments at other fans?
Just take a moment to reflect on exactly where SUFC is at right now…. All thanks to him.

We are out of the league, we are a pariah club with a destroyed reputation, we are the biggest laughing stock in English football, we are all but bankrupt…….NO real SUFC fan can have even the slightest positive thing to say about about “that person” …….. so I just assume that anyone who defends him in any way , shape or form, is just a stooge, put the there to deliberately divide the fan base.



It’s all too sad to think about for too long.
 
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