Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[The Big Dady]

I've said it once and I'll say it again!! Its not in Ron's interest to let us get wound up! He stands to make a packet from Fossetts! This thread is pointless and annoying! Everyone knows ron always pays.

Errr, he did not on Weds

 

[Shrimpet steve]

Errr, he did not on Weds

It makes zero sense for ron not to pay!

 

[Shrimperjohn]

It makes zero sense for ron not to pay

It makes zero sense for Ron not to pay his staff either

 

[Strykr]

You would think after the last couple of weeks with fans unhappy and even turning up at his benfleet mansion he would come out and give us a statement but no not him a few minutes on the phone with Chris Phillips would not hurt him

you could argue its pointless. %90 of people on here would say its bollocks and they'd probably be right.

 

[stewart]

The trouble with loans is that it puts the club deeper in debt and if something should go amiss ( i pray to god that it dosent ) i doubt we could wiggle our way out of it .

 

[blueblueblue]

It makes zero sense for ron not to pay!

I hate to say it but you do have a point. It's so close, he'll find the money.

 

[bazzashrimper]

What does final mean? Wound up or administration. Either way Ron will find a way out of it. He’s done it for 20 years

Not condoning it and it leaves me a bit sad. But it’s what it is.

 

[stewart]

What does final mean? Wound up or administration. Either way Ron will find a way out of it. He’s done it for 20 years

Not condoning it and it leaves me a bit sad. But it’s what it is.

Final means RM is on his last chance ,pay up or go into administration.. He will pay up ,he wont want to lose his golden egg.

 

[brigg blue]

Final means RM is on his last chance ,pay up or go into administration.. He will pay up ,he wont want to lose his golden egg.

There won't be administration, it will be liquidation of the club, basically we won't exist by the end of March if we get wound up

 

[Ian Benjamin]

They only way anyone makes any money - or any loans get repaid is by the development happening. The value of the assets Ron has are essentially only realisable once the flats are built. The trouble is Ron has no cash, therefore has to borrow.

Just like when the retail model changed, which rendered Sainsburys a non starter - the current interest rates and ever increasing build costs have made lenders reduce the amount they can lend, which are issues out of his control but they are not unique problems.

If the loan from Topland was to default, they will only get their money back by selling the security for the loan. Let’s not forget there was a significant loan from Homes England to fund some of the equity, they could be a potential buyer with another developer. The Council could be a buyer - which might be the best option as then we would have a much better chance of actually being able to pay the rent (if it ever gets built). He isn’t going to sell - as he is in the hole for anywhere between £10-20m and no one is paying anything like that for SUFC.

Can we survive long enough for any of this to happen? Who knows.

But if anyone, including any lenders, want to see a return, the club must survive.

Or it will be admin, Ron loses everything, we get kicked out of the league and have to start again as a phoenix. The council don’t get their flats.

What we need to know from the club is what needs to be done, by whom and by when to get this new loan. There will be a checklist, I have worked in commercial real estate for too many years to know that 42 days isn’t long, unless you either cut corners or charge a higher enough rate of interest that you don’t really care.

 

[RHB]

They only way anyone makes any money - or any loans get repaid is by the development happening. The value of the assets Ron has are essentially only realisable once the flats are built. The trouble is Ron has no cash, therefore has to borrow.

Just like when the retail model changed, which rendered Sainsburys a non starter - the current interest rates and ever increasing build costs have made lenders reduce the amount they can lend, which are issues out of his control but they are not unique problems.

If the loan from Topland was to default, they will only get their money back by selling the security for the loan. Let’s not forget there was a significant loan from Homes England to fund some of the equity, they could be a potential buyer with another developer. The Council could be a buyer - which might be the best option as then we would have a much better chance of actually being able to pay the rent (if it ever gets built). He isn’t going to sell - as he is in the hole for anywhere between £10-20m and no one is paying anything like that for SUFC.

Can we survive long enough for any of this to happen? Who knows.

But if anyone, including any lenders, want to see a return, the club must survive.

Or it will be admin, Ron loses everything, we get kicked out of the league and have to start again as a phoenix. The council don’t get their flats.

What we need to know from the club is what needs to be done, by whom and by when to get this new loan. There will be a checklist, I have worked in commercial real estate for too many years to know that 42 days isn’t long, unless you either cut corners or charge a higher enough rate of interest that you don’t really care.

Some serious words of wisdom here which, like it or not, summarises the current situation we find ourselves in very well.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Out of interest at what point do the trust fully adopt a Martin Out agenda and engage with the planned protests on the 28th?

There are many people who do not agree with this stance. Many who believe that he's going nowhere - and why would he when the golden egg is within his grasp after putting in millions over the years? Would you?

Protest outside the ground by all means but it's pretty obvious he won't be there so to protest inside the ground would be pointless and possibly counter productive if it affects the players.

Absolutely no-one is defending him, least of all the Trust, but many supporters are realistic enough to know that he is going nowhere at this stage.

 

[Hawkwell Blue]

There are many people who do not agree with this stance. Many who believe that he's going nowhere - and why would he when the golden egg is within his grasp after putting in millions over the years? Would you?

Protest outside the ground by all means but it's pretty obvious he won't be there so to protest inside the ground would be pointless and possibly counter productive if it affects the players.

Absolutely no-one is defending him, least of all the Trust, but many supporters are realistic enough to know that he is going nowhere at this stage.

He isn’t going anywhere and I think the march would be better suited to showing how big the support for the club is in the City and how much we care and are worried about the imminent future. Make sure every relevant media outlet covers it, even the Echo, and garner as much positive publicity as possible. A march simply shouting “Martin Out” the whole way is pointless I’m afraid. Utbs!

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

They only way anyone makes any money - or any loans get repaid is by the development happening. The value of the assets Ron has are essentially only realisable once the flats are built. The trouble is Ron has no cash, therefore has to borrow.

Just like when the retail model changed, which rendered Sainsburys a non starter - the current interest rates and ever increasing build costs have made lenders reduce the amount they can lend, which are issues out of his control but they are not unique problems.

If the loan from Topland was to default, they will only get their money back by selling the security for the loan. Let’s not forget there was a significant loan from Homes England to fund some of the equity, they could be a potential buyer with another developer. The Council could be a buyer - which might be the best option as then we would have a much better chance of actually being able to pay the rent (if it ever gets built). He isn’t going to sell - as he is in the hole for anywhere between £10-20m and no one is paying anything like that for SUFC.

Can we survive long enough for any of this to happen? Who knows.

But if anyone, including any lenders, want to see a return, the club must survive.

Or it will be admin, Ron loses everything, we get kicked out of the league and have to start again as a phoenix. The council don’t get their flats.

What we need to know from the club is what needs to be done, by whom and by when to get this new loan. There will be a checklist, I have worked in commercial real estate for too many years to know that 42 days isn’t long, unless you either cut corners or charge a higher enough rate of interest that you don’t really care.

I think thats the thing we dont know how far down the loan process Ron is to see if 40 days is enough. It might be.
Ron probably doesnt know the time frame as he does not have experience in bridging loans but it would be good to know its processing well etc.

 

[Barling Magna]

It makes zero sense for ron not to pay!

That's true Shrimpet. Unless he doesn't have or cannot loan the money to do so of course. He clearly couldn't on Wednesday or he would have done so as he has so many times before. This feels different mate...... we are on the cliff edge with a strong offshore wind threatening us.

 

[tommy tucker]

He isn’t going anywhere and I think the march would be better suited to showing how big the support for the club is in the City and how much we care and are worried about the imminent future. Make sure every relevant media outlet covers it, even the Echo, and garner as much positive publicity as possible. A march simply shouting “Martin Out” the whole way is pointless I’m afraid. Utbs!

Couldnt agree more yes Fans have a right to air there vewis but to what end .Ron martin will not hear them .Nor will he listen .The only good out come is he rasies that he get the money .We get the new ground started .Funds ther released .THE Stadium gets finished .Ron gets his pay off the buggers off .

 

[sufc4life21]

Regards to protests I agree there probably waste of time as I can't see him going but if Southend were to go bust you don't want to look back and say I wish I did something. Sometimes in life its better to do something rather than nothing. If fans want to go and protest then go for it I say. Your club at the end of the day.

 

[Blue43]

There are many people who do not agree with this stance. Many who believe that he's going nowhere - and why would he when the golden egg is within his grasp after putting in millions over the years? Would you?

Protest outside the ground by all means but it's pretty obvious he won't be there so to protest inside the ground would be pointless and possibly counter productive if it affects the players.

Absolutely no-one is defending him, least of all the Trust, but many supporters are realistic enough to know that he is going nowhere at this stage.

The golden egg may well be within his grasp and If Ron had paid before Wednesday and the case had been dismissed then I would tend to agree with you.

However I firmly believe he’s run out of companies to turn to for money and is struggling to secure the loan.

The FF development was a lot more profitable 2-3 years ago, but with a huge rise in building materials, property prices dropping and interest rates rising the end profit will be significantly less now than originally forecast.

This has probably resulted in lenders tending to be a lot more nervous loaning a property developer that kind of money who’s had huge financial difficulties and a history of court cases with unpaid taxes to HMRC.

As I have said the only way out of this mess is for Ron to sell now before it’s too late and we don’t have a club left in 5 weeks time!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Isn't about time this gouvernment showed that it's leveling up agenda actually meant something to ordinary people? Man City, Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Spurs.......and us. Just look at the injustice, inequality and unfairness. Come on Rishi, g'us the money now...............please.

 

[SeldomSeenShrimper]

It makes zero sense for ron not to pay!

It made zero sense for me not to pay my rent during covid, but when the money doesn't exist, there is nothing we can do.

Ron isn't playing some long game, he's skint AF and has to rely on loans and borrowing against assets to keep the club afloat.
I have lost all faith in him being in control now, Plan A not working ... fair enough Plan B ... things happen. But Ron is so far down the rabbit hole now, I don't think we will be seeing daylight for a long time while he's in charge.

Ron is NOT in control of the situation.