Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[fbm]

My understanding is that planning permission has been granted, however, there are now clauses that need to be met to deliver on the section 106 agreements around the infrastructure of the development. Some of which will likely require the club to make payments to the council for.

Ah.

So are the Council playing hardball over who pays for the new roads that would need to be built?

 

[kentblues]

That what happen to many clubs that got booted out of NL set up, unless they get lucky and win promotion back to EFL.

Before we start another rumour round (as if we can bear any more) I believe the attached still applies for National League- please anyone with something more up to date please share
Section 14 pg27 on

https://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/rules-of-the-association/2013-14/standardised-rules.ashx

Admin = 10 point deduction after 3rd week in March applied to following season


PS would be surprised if it was now 12 but approach was standardised 2013/14- so no kicking out of the league for admin as far as I can see

 

[stortford]

Rings a bell that where the PFA have stepped in to pay wages in the past it has been as a loan to the club.

 

[in the know]

Has a club ever been promoted and had to start the next league up with a 10 point deduction ? Must be a rare scenario.

 

[kentblues]

My understanding is that planning permission has been granted, however, there are now clauses that need to be met to deliver on the section 106 agreements around the infrastructure of the development. Some of which will likely require the club to make payments to the council for.

Well not the club- the developers. But actually revised planning for change from hotel to more housing is not approved- even though it was a Delegated Decision with expected approval date of 3/12/22. Is this because an extra 48? flats replacing a 100 room hotel means the section 106 agreements being revisited out of a 1200 home development? Nothing would surprise me. It’s amazing anything gets built at all- what’s SBC record on delivering major developments?

 

[stewart]

Tired off all this **** next time i read any posts on this thread will be on March2nd , there isnt a thing any off you can do now ,but wait and see the outcome . RM isnt going to budge from his stance ,He is bull headed and wont listen to anyone. No good fighting amongst yourselves . Just relax support the players and staff and pray to God for help to save our club .

 

[kentblues]

Would be Kev’s crowning glory- and I would go and put a wedge on him keeping us up…

 

[kentblues]

Tired off all this **** next time i read any posts on this thread will be on March2nd , there isnt a thing any off you can do now ,but wait and see the outcome . RM isnt going to budge from his stance ,He is bull headed and wont listen to anyone. No good fighting amongst yourselves . Just relax support the players and staff and pray to God for help to save our club .

In a nutshell

 

[kentblues]

Still a very unattractive option for me.

Absolutely- I was just answering the question.
It was interesting to hear Firth’s view that what Ron meant by that he would not let the club be wound up is that if all else fails he would seek through the court administration- ensure the club survives and better than being wound up.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Before we start another rumour round (as we can bear any more) I believe the attached still applies for National League- please anyone with something more up to date please share
Section 14 pg27 on

https://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/rules-of-the-association/2013-14/standardised-rules.ashx

Admin = 10 point deduction after 3rd week in March applied to following season


PS would be surprised if it was now 12 but approach was standardised 2013/14- so no kicking out of the league for admin as far as I can see

See my post above which has a link to the 22/23 National League rules. You are quite correct it is definitely 10 points, although it’s difficult to get some on here to accept reality when they are so convinced they are right!

 

[amsemp]

Chris Phillips sounds like he's had enough as well over these rumours.
Replying to
@sidr1971
I had 70 people message me about the rumours so followed them up, asked the question and published the response. Your abuse of me is becoming tiresome now.
To be fair to both sides. Here's the response.
Replying to
@CJPhillips1982
It's not abuse, Chris. I'm surprised sad and sorry that you have interpreted it that way. It's making a point that if you added a bit more context and balance, it would elevate the debate beyond just emotion and rumours that we get on SZ. I'll say no more. Best of regards. UTB

Jeez, that guy is an absolute penis. Clearly not getting enough attention at home.

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

Humour me here as I’m not the brightest on these matters, but what does happen to the gate money? Let’s say we average around 5700 per home game, with roughly 3000 season ticket holders? That’s around 2500 ‘home’ paying customers at say an average price (allowing for concessions) of £15 each. That’s not far off £40k per home game. I know that’s a drop in the ocean, but with Stan saying there’s no money for anything, where does that £40k go? No one is being paid, certainly not the tax man? Is it going towards existing loans? It’s going somewhere so I just wondered where?

It helps Ron pay his other debts. You could ask where did the shrimpers trust loan go? Where did that just giving money go? Where did the youth parachute payments go? All been used for the wrong reason

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

Has a club ever been promoted and had to start the next league up with a 10 point deduction ? Must be a rare scenario.

Boston United. Well a 4 point deduction before they started the football league season

 

[fbm]

Before we start another rumour round (as we can bear any more) I believe the attached still applies for National League- please anyone with something more up to date please share
Section 14 pg27 on

https://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/rules-of-the-association/2013-14/standardised-rules.ashx

Admin = 10 point deduction after 3rd week in March applied to following season


PS would be surprised if it was now 12 but approach was standardised 2013/14- so no kicking out of the league for admin as far as I can see

This is the same for the NL rules for 2022/23.

These are here -

https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files.pitchero.com/leagues/12323_1673356786.pdf

Rule 13 is the pertinent one for administration, or as it's referred to, an "Insolvency event".

They do make interesting reading and with apologies to those who may already know this, if you decide to scrutinize them (worthwhile for people who want to be involved in any future Phoenix club as they show exactly what has to be done at this level; when I worked at the club for a year in the early 1990's I was amazed at the amount of behind the scenes work that went on, and that was division 2), then I would recommend that -

a) you don't take one rule out of context and
b) make sure you refer to the definitions.

Interestingly, we may have come a bit of a cropper a couple of weeks ago in the home game v York where we failed to provide a match programme and relied on a teamsheet. This contravenes rule 8.14 but I don't know what the sanction is and to be honest can't be bothered to trawl through them to find out. I don't want to learn about any other bad news, there's only so much I can take of that.

 

[Kat_r]

Humour me here as I’m not the brightest on these matters, but what does happen to the gate money? Let’s say we average around 5700 per home game, with roughly 3000 season ticket holders? That’s around 2500 ‘home’ paying customers at say an average price (allowing for concessions) of £15 each. That’s not far off £40k per home game. I know that’s a drop in the ocean, but with Stan saying there’s no money for anything, where does that £40k go? No one is being paid, certainly not the tax man? Is it going towards existing loans? It’s going somewhere so I just wondered where?

Good question

 

[Danshrimper]

It helps Ron pay his other debts. You could ask where did the shrimpers trust loan go? Where did that just giving money go? Where did the youth parachute payments go? All been used for the wrong reason

To pay the October/November wages of backroom/office staff. How is that the wrong reason?

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

To pay the October/November wages of backroom/office staff. How is that the wrong reason?

I didnt realise we paid the staff with that money even though that was our intent. Just thought it went into that black hole

 

[overseas shrimper]

Tired off all this **** next time i read any posts on this thread will be on March2nd , there isnt a thing any off you can do now ,but wait and see the outcome . RM isnt going to budge from his stance ,He is bull headed and wont listen to anyone. No good fighting amongst yourselves . Just relax support the players and staff and pray to God for help to save our club .

Your loss! You'll miss Ron's statement on the 27th of this month, in which he states he has

1. paid off HMRC
2. written off all debts owed to him and his myriad of companies
3. sold the club to a dream consortium led by SVC, with Stan as chairman and TL remaining as CEO and a cash injection in the tens of millions
4. secured all permits and breaking ground has commenced
5. by way of sincere apology, handed Roots Hall, and therefore profits from the land sale when housing development commences AND ownership of the FF development, to the club

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Boston United. Well a 4 point deduction before they started the football league season

For cheating, paying players low wages to get less tax, then pay rest of their wages in brown envelope (full of cash).

 

[Streaky]

Has a club ever been promoted and had to start the next league up with a 10 point deduction ? Must be a rare scenario.

This would be peak Southend United!