Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[GBJ]

Fact is the finances of SUFC have been ramshackle for longer than I care to remember.

Have they though? Through the early 2000’s we were drawing crowds of 3k. This figure grew rapidly during our rise up the divisions/trips to cup finals etc which we maintained and remarkably still pull in 6k for conference football.

We’ve also had a few windfalls from transfers along the way. Eastwood, Nicky Bailey, Bentley, Leonard, JCR, Charlie Mac & Yearwood spring to mind, along with the many others that aren’t as easily recognisable - Isaac Hayden to Newcastle for example - which have earned us a good few quid in the end.

We’ve had more and more sponsorship come on board since the early 2000’s too. Back then it was just the main shirt sponsor (which was Martin Dawn at one stage) Now we’ve got back of shirt sponsors & sleeve sponsors to boost yearly income. That’s in addition to the stands at RH having regular sponsorship these days, along with matchday sponsors, ball sponsors, training ground sponsors, player sponsors and even car park sponsors.

As a business, Ron had an incredible foundation to work with. Exponential growth, a loyal customer base, various income streams.

He has p*ssed it all away, and this can be put down to one of two reasons (although frankly I think it’s both

1) chasing his pension pot

2) complete and utter mismanagement.

Credit? He got dealt pocket aces hand after hand and not only did he fail to capitalise on it, but he blew his stack.

I dread to think what would have happened to us, had he not got lucky with the appointment of Tilson and the remarkable recruitment he and Brushy did back then.

 

[fbm]

Bare minimum job of an owner is to keep the club a float. Here a question, how would you feel if Ron put sufc to sleep? I doubt you would be giving him any credit then.

But he hasn't and no, of course I wouldn't, I'm not sure what your point here is.

 

[LCBB72]

But he hasn't and no, of course I wouldn't, I'm not sure what your point here is.

Put Ron to sleep .

 

[LCBB72]

Have they though? Through the early 2000’s we were drawing crowds of 3k. This figure grew rapidly during our rise up the divisions/trips to cup finals etc which we maintained and remarkably still pull in 6k for conference football.

We’ve also had a few windfalls from transfers along the way. Eastwood, Nicky Bailey, Bentley, Leonard, JCR, Charlie Mac & Yearwood spring to mind, along with the many others that aren’t as easily recognisable - Isaac Hayden to Newcastle for example - which have earned us a good few quid in the end.

We’ve had more and more sponsorship come on board since the early 2000’s too. Back then it was just the main shirt sponsor. Now we’ve got back of shirt sponsors & sleeve sponsors to boost yearly income. That’s in addition to the stands at RH having regular sponsorship these days, along with matchday sponsors, ball sponsors, training ground sponsors, player sponsors and even car park sponsors.

As a business, Ron had an incredible foundation to work with. Exponential growth, a loyal customer base, various income streams.

He has p*ssed it all away, and this can be put down to one of two reasons (although frankly I think it’s both

1) chasing his pension pot

2) complete and utter mismanagement.

Credit? He got dealt pocket aces hand after hand and not only did he fail to capitalise on it, but he blew his stack.

I dread to think what would have happened to us, had he not got lucky with the appointment of Tilson and the remarkable recruitment he and Brushy did back then.

I always thought it was David Webb who put Steve Tilson and Paul Brush together .

 

[kentblues]

Correct. This is varying the consented scheme by reducing the capacity of the stadium down to approximately16,000, and replacing the hotel with 40 residential units.
There are also seven validated pre-commencement condition applications with SBC awaiting approval, as well the major variation above.
Most have been with SBC since September 2022, and they should decide within 12 weeks but of course have not to date.

Perhaps time for SBC to act.......

PS this is not a post in favour of RM in any way fellow Shrimpers!

Indeed and for a development of 1200 homes does replacing a 100 room hotel will 40 additional flats really need months of consideration…then planning has always progressed at a funereal pace and a sense of urgency strictly verboten ( in all circumstances it seems). Is it a roadblock to the loan drawdown - well we don’t know but interesting it was mentioned

 

[Hooly]

As I was only a lurker on here for many years recently does anyone know how the £5m we borrowed from Sainsbury's last time we owed HMRC a large amount £2.4m?? was settled?

I had copies of the legal charges to Sainsbury's against Martin Dawn which are on Companies House Mar 2011 against a number of Ron's bit's of property dotted around the area but in the "Satisfaction of Charge" notices in Oct 2019 it just says Satisfaction of Charge "In full".

Given I wasn't paying attention at the time I wonder is anything was ever said at the time?

 

[Cricko]

As I was only a lurker on here for many years recently does anyone know how the £5m we borrowed from Sainsbury's last time we owed HMRC a large amount £2.4m?? was settled?

I had copies of the legal charges to Sainsbury's against Martin Dawn which are on Companies House Mar 2011 against a number of Ron's bit's of property dotted around the area but in the "Satisfaction of Charge" notices in Oct 2019 it just says Satisfaction of Charge "In full".

Given I wasn't paying attention at the time I wonder is anything was ever said at the time?

I believe they wrote it off as they were the side to back out of the deal.

 

[Alexshrimper]

For me the facts are simple Ron had lied about the bridging loan being secured in weeks.

He has no money to pay the first team let alone the tax man. If he’s not paying the first team he’s most defiantly not paying the current tax and so we will be in the same position in a few months time.

His position is untenable

Let’s face it - our support is rubbish. We should have thousands protesting and yet must a couple of hundred.

Protesting at the ground is useless

Protesting at his house will draw the most attention.

This is the point everyone should be saying enough is enough.

 

[Chrisb]

As I was only a lurker on here for many years recently does anyone know how the £5m we borrowed from Sainsbury's last time we owed HMRC a large amount £2.4m?? was settled?

I had copies of the legal charges to Sainsbury's against Martin Dawn which are on Companies House Mar 2011 against a number of Ron's bit's of property dotted around the area but in the "Satisfaction of Charge" notices in Oct 2019 it just says Satisfaction of Charge "In full".

Given I wasn't paying attention at the time I wonder is anything was ever said at the time?

Didn't Sainsburys have to compensate us for pulling out of the deal for a store at Roots Hall ?

 

[Holy Joe]

For me the facts are simple Ron had lied about the bridging loan being secured in weeks.

He has no money to pay the first team let alone the tax man. If he’s not paying the first team he’s most defiantly not paying the current tax and so we will be in the same position in a few months time.

His position is untenable

Let’s face it - our support is rubbish. We should have thousands protesting and yet must a couple of hundred.

Protesting at the ground is useless

Protesting at his house will draw the most attention.

This is the point everyone should be saying enough is enough.

Mostly opinion - not facts

 

[Hooly]

@Cricko ....Thanks Old Timer.. :)

 

[Blue43]

Mostly opinion - not facts

Mostly opinion, not facts?

Ron said the bridging loan would arrive in October but it didn’t and still hasn’t…..fact.

Ron has not got the money to pay the staff, players and management……fact.

Ron has no money to pay the historic and current tax bills……fact.

 

[Holy Joe]

Mostly opinion, not facts?

Ron said the bridging loan would arrive in October but it didn’t and still hasn’t…..fact.

Ron has not got the money to pay the staff, players and management……fact.

Ron has no money to pay the historic and current tax bills……fact.

(1) The original poster said Ron lied - weeks not months - I don't think there has been any evidence that he deliberately deceived, which is what makes a lie - it could be he mistakenly believed weeks not months - so he lied is an opinion.

(2) Agree

(3) Opinion isn't it? Whilst I suspect it might be correct we don't have any info on this. In the last statement it said historic debt. I asked then if it meant we were currently paying tax/VAT or if there was a current debt also - but no-one knows.

And then the other 4 statements are I think also opinion. So 1 out 7 statement factual - as I said mostly opinion.

 

[Alexshrimper]

Mostly opinion - not facts

Erm it’s not opinion that he lied about the bridging loan being weeks?

 

[Holy Joe]

Erm it’s not opinion that he lied about the bridging loan being weeks?

It is though isn't it? For it to be a lie he has to have known that to be incorrect - I don't think there is any evidence that he knew at that time it would take him longer. Therefore it's an opinion that he lied. It's factual that the loan has not been 'weeks not months'.

 

[Blue43]

(1) The original poster said Ron lied - weeks not months - I don't think there has been any evidence that he deliberately deceived, which is what makes a lie - it could be he mistakenly believed weeks not months - so he lied is an opinion.

(2) Agree

(3) Opinion isn't it? Whilst I suspect it might be correct we don't have any info on this. In the last statement it said historic debt. I asked then if it meant we were currently paying tax/VAT or if there was a current debt also - but no-one knows.

And then the other 4 statements are I think also opinion. So 1 out 7 statement factual - as I said mostly opinion.

Ron doesn’t know how to tell the truth, everything that comes out of that man’s mouth is a LIE……fact!!

 

[Alexshrimper]

It is though isn't it? For it to be a lie he has to have known that to be incorrect - I don't think there is any evidence that he knew at that time it would take him longer. Therefore it's an opinion that he lied. It's factual that the loan has not been 'weeks not months'.

This must be a Ron Martin bot account - who knew he was so tech savvy

How can there be no evidence that he knew at the time lol

Scenario a - Bank manager can I have a loan - yes it’s agreed and will be weeks

Scenarios b - bank manager can I have a loan - no

You wouldn’t say a bridging loan would be weeks if you hadn’t got it agreed so therefore there is evidence he lied

 

[kentblues]

Erm it’s not opinion that he lied about the bridging loan being weeks?

We don't know (which I guess is the point). For example we have been told by very reliable poster that the bridging loan is in place- its perfectly possible that this is true and the loan comes with conditions one of which is planning approval? What do we know about this? How long was it expected to take? Why delays? Who is responsible? Did RM believe it would be sorted much sooner? Both the club and SBC are "disappointed with progress"? The problem is it might be convenient treat rumour and speculation as "facts" but it doesn't make them so.

And of course we all have to say it else the name calling follows- I do not want RM to remain as the owner of the club, the time has come for a new owner (even if we can't choose who). The only real debate is the timing.

 

[kentblues]

Ron doesn’t know how to tell the truth, everything that comes out of that man’s mouth is a LIE……fact!!

And I rest my case...

 

[kentblues]

How can there be no evidence that he knew at the time lol

Scenario a - Bank manager can I have a loan - yes it’s agreed and will be weeks

Scenarios b - bank manager can I have a loan - no

You wouldn’t say a bridging loan would be weeks if you hadn’t got it agreed so therefore there is evidence he lied

This is deliberately missing the point I think- you can have a loan agreed subject to certain conditions- maybe conditions you have every expectation to be fulfilled with a certain timeframe? Again I don't claim rumour as facts so I don't know- but it is also very much a possibility. And unless you have evidence to share you don't know either?