Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[Texas Eslan]

Only at Southend could the clubs owner literally come out and leave us even more confused than if he’d kept his big lying mouth shut. Is he playing with us?

 

[Barling Magna]

This whole ‘we won’t fold but it will be close’ comment says a lot to me. I know we can’t trust anything Ron says, but if you take that comment at face value he knows something we don’t, which could easily be that the loan is agreed and ready to draw down, but he can’t admit that as everyone would rightly demand he does so now to pay all the staff, players and other debts. But he doesn’t want to draw it down now, due to the high interest. So being the tightrope artist he is, he says enough to give us hope so he can play the game for a couple more weeks and draw down the loan at the last minute, as in, it will be close. I could be barking up completely the wrong tree in the wrong forest of course but it’s a theory at least..

It could well be wishful thinking, but it would fit in with Tom saying something like "if we can get through February we will be OK". Or maybe I've remembered that incorrectly?

 

[Holy Joe]

Hearing that some staff have been told by email that they should start looking for alternative employment as they can not guarantee work after 18th February. Not looking positive if these sorts of messages are being sent to match day staff.

Can you clarify they've been literally told to look for other jobs or that theyve been told their roles are at risk?

And sent to match day staff only?

 

[Holy Joe]

Can you clarify they've been literally told to look for other jobs or that theyve been told their roles are at risk?

And sent to match day staff only?

Actually are these staff on contracts or are they zero hour contracts or something?

Not trying to belittle the issue, but trying to think through what the club is trying to do - maybe no more programmes? Less turnstiles open? Less Windows open at ticket collection, etc

 

[TJC]

Can clarify they've been literally told to look for other jobs or that theyve been told their roles are at risk?

And sent to match day staff only?

Sorry, is that a question to op or you are backing up op? Did you mean 'can you clarify' in the first bit?

 

[Holy Joe]

Sorry, is that a question to op or you are backing up op? Did you mean 'can you clarify' in the first bir?

Question. I'll edit original msg

 

[TJC]

Question. I'll edit original msg

Phew. So can still hope it's not true, for now!
Just hoping op has been wound up (excuse the pun)

 

[Rob1920]

Same as usual! Your another one who has jumped on the ron out band wagon!! If u knew anything about southend then u would know this has been going on for the last 20 years! Ron always gets us in this position and he always comes through right? It's all too predictable.

Don’t think you read my post properly. I never said ‘Ron out’, I was saying he could well be playing a game to avoid taking the loan now, but instead leave it til the last minute. Which is effectively, what you’re saying As for knowing anything about Southend I’ve been a fan since 1973 so I think I’ve done my time.
I know, I shouldn’t bite..

 

[Colblue]

Brilliant! Same as the last 20 years,nothing to worry about! Ron pays,embargo ends and we go again as usual! A load of fuss about nothing.

Trouble is the southend version of going again as usual just isn’t sustainable.
How many more last chance visits to HMRC are possible until there is no more cash down the back of Rons sofa to bail out at the last nano second

 

[Cricko]

This is the full email from RM as read out by Glen at BBC Essex yesterday for those that missed it.

The position is quite simple,once HMRC collapsed our time to pay agreement which meant the legacy debt which was nearly all accured during the pandemic when income was very limited with costs the same the whole sum fell due to HMRC.

The amount was made up entirely of PAYE for players wages when in league 1 and league 2. Over time the clubs wage bill has reduced but the legacy debt has remained.. The club arranged and managed a time to pay agreement quite well for some 8 months and then missed a payment due at the end of August last year. Combined with double relegations and a large reduction of central income this proved to be the perfect storm.

The clubs cash flow deficit is circa 2 milliom pounds and that is what we are trying to fix before March 1st. We will not let the club be wound up and there are reasonable prospects in train to meet the clubs cash needs in time but it will be close.

Roots Hall is a cash pit, income once a fortnight for 9 months of the year has always meant it needs a beneficiary, for that reasonthe club will never be sustainable while it remains at Roots Hall. The relocation plans will fix that for good allowing us to compete without the constant large cash cold when we get back in the EFL.

Raising the funds is my primary focus, we are advanced but not there yet but i am not a magician. However if we can get past this current trauma the future for the club is bright.

We are advanced with the council, perhaps a little slower than both the club and council wish but with a fair wind and continued support from the council we could be on site in the close season now that the training ground works are completed.

I know that there are many questions people wish to ask and i would be happy to speak to you Glen. I had yesterday thought about attending the game today but i have to many commitments and will therefore intermittently be listening to BBC Essex this afternoon instead.

 

[Cricko]

After reading it a few times another line that really stands out to me is,

However if we can get past this current trauma the future for the club is bright.

So RM is not confident we can then otherwise surely it would be "When"

 

[MisterStubbs]

To summarise, it’s everybody else’s and the pandemics fault. Not Ron’s. Same old ****.

 

[pottster]

I like how he says HMRC collasped the time to pay deal. It only collasped because he didn't pay the instalment!

 

[Callum]

Ron just sell up and **** off you damaged our club too much

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

This whole ‘we won’t fold but it will be close’ comment says a lot to me. I know we can’t trust anything Ron says, but if you take that comment at face value he knows something we don’t, which could easily be that the loan is agreed and ready to draw down, but he can’t admit that as everyone would rightly demand he does so now to pay all the staff, players and other debts. But he doesn’t want to draw it down now, due to the high interest. So being the tightrope artist he is, he says enough to give us hope so he can play the game for a couple more weeks and draw down the loan at the last minute, as in, it will be close. I could be barking up completely the wrong tree in the wrong forest of course but it’s a theory at least..

Thanks you for that, it's saved me some time this morning, composing a post that says the same thing. I had another thought concerning the seemingly eternal saga of the new stadium. In some ways the delays have worked out in our favour. Imagine if the original plans had gone through and that FF had been developed with it's commercial complex before the crash? Far from a vibrant centre It could now be an an unwelcoming desert of empty and boarded up shops, not bringing in the dreamed of revenue streams ( whoever they may have profited).

 

[bazzashrimper]

2008 I think we were supposed to move in

1987

 

[Carl]

From October 2022:

“Early in October, the chairman of the National League team, Ron Martin, issued a statement to the public informing them that the team had fallen behind on a payment required by its time-to-pay arrangement (TTP) with HMRC. As a result, the arrangement was cancelled

On October 1, the club stated, Given the current economic climate I believe [that] to be premature, particularly given the agreement was due to finish in December 2022,"

"Bridging finance has been agreed, but has not yet been completed. Once it has (weeks not months) we will discharge the HMRC debt in full”

1. “Weeks not months”
2. If the TTP was due to finish in December 2022 and we could afford it, and only missed one month, surely it’d have been cleared in January 2023
3. If bridging finance was still agreed as it allegedly was, surely that would have been mentioned yesterday.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Medieval man A: “What the ****s this?”

Medieval man B: “It’s another planning application from Ron Martin”

Medieval man A: “Oh for ****s sake”

 

[CRATE]

Now Ron Martin, has declared it’s going to go down to the wire and will be very tight and now he has been upfront, I’ve lost faith that we will find the money from somewhere.

For a long time, I’ve said, Ron Martin can’t allow the club to go bust, as he can’t afford to lose his golden pot at the end of his rainbow.

I have notifications set up on his known companies, via Endole, to see if anyone of them get charges or documents uploaded on companies house that could relate to the bridging loan being spoken about.

We recently, 6 months again (as I understand) refinanced / structured loans on lands relating to FF & Roots Hall with CBRE, I am unsure, what more land there could be to borrow against.

 

[kentblues]

Now Ron Martin, has declared it’s going to go down to the wire and will be very tight and now he has been upfront, I’ve lost faith that we will find the money from somewhere.

For a long time, I’ve said, Ron Martin can’t allow the club to go bust, as he can’t afford to lose his golden pot at the end of his rainbow.

I have notifications set up on his known companies, via Endole, to see if anyone of them get charges or documents uploaded on companies house that could relate to the bridging loan being spoken about.

We recently, 6 months again (as I understand) refinanced / structured loans on lands relating to FF & Roots Hall with CBRE, I am unsure, what more land there could be to borrow against.

As previously mentioned as far as I can see Dellal’s companies appear to already hold charges against the land for the development at FF??

So any surety provided relating to contractual monies released by stage of the development are unlikely to appear in the form of a charge.

Yes CRBE were restructuring debts related to RH.

I think the bit somehow missed in comments so far that maybe important is:

“We are advanced with the council, perhaps a little slower than both the club and council wish but with a fair wind and continued support from the council we could be on site in the close season now that the training ground works are completed.”

Is this not suggesting to anyone that the council has still not approved the revised planning with residential replacing hotel?? And if so how likely is it that the bridging loan would be forwarded without it?? Is the bridging waiting for SBC?

Is anyone even following the revised planning??

Maybe someone knows/can find out..