Hard or Soft Brexit?

[callan]

When the negociations get underway, this could be a useful address for some of you............

https://www.7cups.com/self-harm/

You're better than this.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

I suspect the arrogance lies with BLair who has managed to alienate everyone from Corbyn to your average leave voter.
When he urges people to 'rise up against Brexit', that is not respecting the democratic result of the referendum.

Agreed, he needs to wind his neck in.

I love the "you can't just ignore the 48%" whinge. They ignored the 52% for years and would happily carry on doing so if they could. That's why we voted out.

Remind me, what did your glorious leader say would happen if the vote was 52-48 remain.

The country is divided on the issue, nothing you do or say can alter that fact.
We need an administration that will take ALL views into account otherwise chaos will ensue.

 

[callan]

Agreed, he needs to wind his neck in.



Remind me, what did your glorious leader say would happen if the vote was 52-48 remain.

The country is divided on the issue, nothing you do or say can alter that fact.
We need an administration that will take ALL views into account otherwise chaos will ensue.

The difficulty is of course we are not negotiating with the 48 per cent, but the EU.

I'm not sure that any form of Brexit will satisfy those who did not wish to leave?, but only those who voted to remain are able to comment.

 

[mrsblue]

When the negociations get underway, this could be a useful address for some of you............

https://www.7cups.com/self-harm/

You spelt negotiation incorrectly...and you pulled me up on my grammar:winking:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

You're better than this.

Ohhhhhh.........one get's so frustrated and fed up with it all. Yet, I sincerely believe it IS self harm and where you could and should have sympathy for self-harmers, that sympathy is hugely reduced when, by their actions, they harm others as well. I've got to the shocking and sad point where I just want the UK the hell out of Europe ASAP with a bad deal or no deal at all.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

You spelt negotiation incorrectly...and you pulled me up on my grammar:winking:

The difference being, I thank you for pointing it out.

 

[rigsby]

Ohhhhhh.........one get's so frustrated and fed up with it all. Yet, I sincerely believe it IS self harm and where you could and should have sympathy for self-harmers, that sympathy is hugely reduced when, by their actions, they harm others as well. I've got to the shocking and sad point where I just want the UK the hell out of Europe ASAP with a bad deal or no deal at all.

As any good business person knows, the only way to get the best deal is to threaten no deal.

 

[callan]

Ohhhhhh.........one get's so frustrated and fed up with it all. Yet, I sincerely believe it IS self harm and where you could and should have sympathy for self-harmers, that sympathy is hugely reduced when, by their actions, they harm others as well. I've got to the shocking and sad point where I just want the UK the hell out of Europe ASAP with a bad deal or no deal at all.

That much is clear.

It is a decision by the British people to leave the EU not Europe.

We are not escaping a prison, or committing any crime by leaving the EU, merely choosing a different path.

The idea that we need to be punished or suffer a consequence for taking this route is quite frankly absurd.

There is no doubt in my mind that we are perfectly capable of forging our own destiny and making a success of it, whilst being on good terms with our fellow Europeans.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

That much is clear.

It is a decision by the British people to leave the EU not Europe.

We are not escaping a prison, or committing any crime by leaving the EU, merely choosing a different path.

The idea that we need to be punished or suffer a consequence for taking this route is quite frankly absurd.

There is no doubt in my mind that we are perfectly capable of forging our own destiny and making a success of it, whilst being on good terms with our fellow Europeans.

I'm afraid that for a large number of people, it's the same thing. Europe is full of foreigners of whom there are far too many in the UK. The continent is fine for holidays and goods but we're 'British' not European............it may not be your opinion but I'm sure it's the opinion of many who voted Brexit under the illusion of 'getting their country back'
The decision taken last year not only overjoyed Farage but also Trump, Putin and France's Le Pen.......some may see something a little worrying about that. Anyway, in this unstable world at the moment, you (the UK) have decided to set yourself adrift..............good luck to you!
All actions of course have consequences and presenting the UK's departure in such simple terms undermines the damage that will be done to the EU. Punished or suffering the consequences are not words I would use but on the other hand I would expect no favours to be given or taken on the UK's departure. Being outside the club, as has been said before, doesn't entitle you the benefits of membership, otherwise, what's the point? Yes, that will be harmful to Europe, as it will be to the UK but as one of the EU (commisioners, I think) said ..........it's a lose/lose situation for both of us.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The Guardian has today started to publish articles on the likelyhood and dangers of a hard Brexit. I suppose this is all leftist exagerations and scaremongering, thus not worth considering............never mind, I'll give a few links anyway!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ould-mean-6bn-in-extra-costs-for-uk-exporters

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ms-gridlock-could-choke-uk-trade-experts-warn

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...lt-and-how-costly-is-a-hard-brexit-leaving-eu

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

The difficulty is of course we are not negotiating with the 48 per cent, but the EU.

I'm not sure that any form of Brexit will satisfy those who did not wish to leave?, but only those who voted to remain are able to comment.

Compared with some of the leavers rantings on here, I think this is an eminently sensible statement.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ould-mean-6bn-in-extra-costs-for-uk-exporters

It could cost up to 6bn quid if no deal is done and we end up leaving the EU on WT rules after two years of unsuccessful talks.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ould-mean-6bn-in-extra-costs-for-uk-exporters

It could cost up to 6bn quid if no deal is done and we end up leaving the EU on WT rules after two years of unsuccessful talks.

Ha! Barna, keep alert :winking:, I already put that link up yesterday! (post 930) Try this one about the UK's possible negociating tactics and their consequences.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ould-leave-uk-without-deal-say-eu-politicians

 

[Bielzibubz]

£6bn is not a great deal when you consider two things.

Firstly, that £6bn could possibly (no one knows the true figure) be the price to be paid for a lifetime of freedom from the corrupt and undemocratic EU behemoth, free global trade and independent border control. Secondly, the bank bailouts have cost you, me and everyone up and down this country far more than the £6bn the divorce from the EU will supposedly cost and we got through that perfectly well without social or financial armageddon befalling on the country. Yes some suffered and some will suffer due to the fallout from the EU divorce but we, the UK, WILL get through it. We WILL go on to prosper and we WILL continue to grow as an independent trading nation.

Also, you forget one salient point. In 2015 alone the UK government's net contributions to the EU was £8.5bn. One year! £8.5bn. In 2020 we won't have to pay anything like that and yet you're quoting and bemoaning a bill of £6bn

 

[rigsby]

One definite fact has emerged since the referendum.....Anyone who spends their life immersed in the Guardian is as narrow minded as the Daily Mail readers that, Guardian fans in particular, despise with contempt.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ha! Barna, keep alert :winking:, I already put that link up yesterday! (post 930) Try this one about the UK's possible negociating tactics and their consequences.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ould-leave-uk-without-deal-say-eu-politicians

Ha! I was taking it easy in Cebazan for a long weekend.

£6bn is not a great deal when you consider two things.

Firstly, that £6bn could possibly (no one knows the true figure) be the price to be paid for a lifetime of freedom from the corrupt and undemocratic EU behemoth, free global trade and independent border control. Secondly, the bank bailouts have cost you, me and everyone up and down this country far more than the £6bn the divorce from the EU will supposedly cost and we got through that perfectly well without social or financial armageddon befalling on the country. Yes some suffered and some will suffer due to the fallout from the EU divorce but we, the UK, WILL get through it. We WILL go on to prosper and we WILL continue to grow as an independent trading nation.

Also, you forget one salient point. In 2015 alone the UK government's net contributions to the EU was £8.5bn. One year! £8.5bn. In 2020 we won't have to pay anything like that and yet you're quoting and bemoaning a bill of £6bn

If 6bn quid is just small beer for you, how about the figure of 60 bn euros, which is the current price being bandied around as what the EU want from the UK as the price of Brexit?

You are ,of course,quite right to point out the high cost of the banks bailout.Although the UK economy (in terms of austerity policies) is still paying for that.

 

[callan]

Ha! I was taking it easy in Cebazan for a long weekend.



If 6bn quid is just small beer for you, how about the figure of 60 bn quid, which is the current price being bandied around as what the EU want from the UK as the price of Brexit?

You perhaps want to check out the accuracy of this...this figure I understand has been plucked out of the air (and extremely ambitious from a legal point of view) and of course is in Euros not sterling.

Further to this consider from a negotiating point of view the EU will want to start high, in their estimate of what is to them owed by the UK in terms of liabilities built up whilst we are / were members.

My guess is that the final settlement will of course be nowhere near this figure, with the UK rebate taken off in addition.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

£6bn is not a great deal when you consider two things.

Firstly, that £6bn could possibly (no one knows the true figure) be the price to be paid for a lifetime of freedom from the corrupt and undemocratic EU behemoth, free global trade and independent border control. Secondly, the bank bailouts have cost you, me and everyone up and down this country far more than the £6bn the divorce from the EU will supposedly cost and we got through that perfectly well without social or financial armageddon befalling on the country. Yes some suffered and some will suffer due to the fallout from the EU divorce but we, the UK, WILL get through it. We WILL go on to prosper and we WILL continue to grow as an independent trading nation.

Also, you forget one salient point. In 2015 alone the UK government's net contributions to the EU was £8.5bn. One year! £8.5bn. In 2020 we won't have to pay anything like that and yet you're quoting and bemoaning a bill of £6bn

Did you have Pomp and Circumstance playing in the background as you wrote that.:smile:

I dearly hope you are correct but I am struggling to share your optimism.

 

[callan]

I'm afraid that for a large number of people, it's the same thing. Europe is full of foreigners of whom there are far too many in the UK. The continent is fine for holidays and goods but we're 'British' not European............it may not be your opinion but I'm sure it's the opinion of many who voted Brexit under the illusion of 'getting their country back'
The decision taken last year not only overjoyed Farage but also Trump, Putin and France's Le Pen.......some may see something a little worrying about that. Anyway, in this unstable world at the moment, you (the UK) have decided to set yourself adrift..............good luck to you!
All actions of course have consequences and presenting the UK's departure in such simple terms undermines the damage that will be done to the EU. Punished or suffering the consequences are not words I would use but on the other hand I would expect no favours to be given or taken on the UK's departure. Being outside the club, as has been said before, doesn't entitle you the benefits of membership, otherwise, what's the point? Yes, that will be harmful to Europe, as it will be to the UK but as one of the EU (commisioners, I think) said ..........it's a lose/lose situation for both of us.

I don't actually see it as lose/lose at all, there can be great benefits for both sides.

The relationship between the EU AND the UK will change of course, and I agree that all actions have consequences but they are not necessarily all negative.

Outside of the club the UK is now free to decide on trade, border control etc and to many these are benefits.

I don't expect favours from the EU either, however I do expect them to show common sense particularly where millions of lively hoods are concerned throughout Europe...it will come as cold comfort to a German car worker to lose their Job in the interests of the political EU project.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You perhaps want to check out the accuracy of this...this figure I understand has been plucked out of the air (and extremely ambitious from a legal point of view) and of course is in Euros not sterling.

Further to this consider from a negotiating point of view the EU will want to start high, in their estimate of what is to them owed by the UK in terms of liabilities built up whilst we are / were members.

My guess is that the final settlement will of course be nowhere near this figure, with the UK rebate taken off in addition.

Thanks for the correction.The lowest figure I've seen is 40 billion euros.