Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Tangled up in Blue]

The paradox actually lies in the economy itself, and to a certain degree the point we are now at.

Who does it serve?.....is it providing for all?....and if it isn't why not.

Our present situation doesn't work for everyone from housing, to the NHS...schools etc....all is under pressure.

Whole communities have been left behind or changed beyond recognition, wages have remained fairly stagnant and many workers are on these zero hour contracts.

The result of this is there is now a lack of tolerance not just in the Uk but across the EU, towards the mechanisms that allow this to happen...freedom of movement is one of them and our inability to plan, lessen any negative impact for those already here, is simply not there.

Post the referendum there is opportunity to correct all this, and by effectively controlling all immigration who do we want, in what numbers, where etc has more chance of success....and there is as mentioned previously no need to have a discriminatory system in place that we do now.


So when the Australians ask for their business people to come, or the Indians their students we can do it, in the same way we can for Polish fruit pickers.... this cannot be enforced on us as it is now, it will be a choice.

Immigration doesn't, have to stop, but it should not be to the detriment of....which is a far fairer way.

It's a bit of a stretch to blame all of this on immigration from other EU countries.

Btw,I don't notice the "lack of tolerance not just in the UK but across the EU" which you refer to, in either Spain or France.

 

[callan]

It's a bit of a stretch to blame all of this on immigration from other EU countries.

Btw,I don't notice the "lack of tolerance not just in the UK but across the EU" which you refer to, in either Spain or France.

Would you describe orban, le pen, Wilders, 5 star, golden dawn the recent elections in Austria as tolerance?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

My expectation is that there will be a commitment towards assuring Indian students that they will still be able come, and a relaxation not just for Indian and Australian workers but for all workers that have the skills we need.

I worked for the Indian government for many years and am still in contact socially with many of my former colleagues from what they are saying it seems that their expectation is not to be discriminated against anymore which of course whilst in the Eu we have.

EU migration will not end but will reduce, if migration from other parts of the world increases then overall population increases will not dip by much. In which case we should face up to that and start investing majorly in housing, infrastructure and services to cope.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Would you describe orban, le pen, Wilders, 5 star, golden dawn the recent elections in Austria as tolerance?

I did specify Spain and France so only MLP is of relevance to that.

I certainly hope she won't make the second round but would admit (grudingly) that the FN's support is quite strong in some areas of France, (in Beziers, for example where the FN Mayor,an ex-classmate of my brother-in-law's, is in power).

 

[callan]

EU migration will not end but will reduce, if migration from other parts of the world increases then overall population increases will not dip by much. In which case we should face up to that and start investing majorly in housing, infrastructure and services to cope.

it's not in anyone's interest for it to end, and if we can plan then and invest as you suggest it will soften any negative impact.

 

[callan]

I did specify Spain and France so only MLP is of relevance to that.

I certainly hope she won't make the second round but would admit (grudingly) that the FN's support is quite strong in some areas of France, (in Beziers, for example where the FN Mayor,an ex-classmate of my brother-in-law's, is in power).

For what it's worth I don't want her to win either....but we shouldn't ignore the reasons for her popularity.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

it's not in anyone's interest for it to end, and if we can plan then and invest as you suggest it will soften any negative impact.

absolutely- capitalism needs growth and growth needs people and infrastructure. Big companies shouldn't need low tax bribes they should be told to pay their way and we will provide staff and customers via housing, education, transport, health. Capitalism needs all these things to work unless it's built on short term profiteers.

 

[callan]

absolutely- capitalism needs growth and growth needs people and infrastructure. Big companies shouldn't need low tax bribes they should be told to pay their way and we will provide staff and customers via housing, education, transport, health. Capitalism needs all these things to work unless it's built on short term profiteers.

Which brings us back nicely to who does the economy serve.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

For what it's worth I don't want her to win either....but we shouldn't ignore the reasons for her popularity.

She definitely won't win.Though just getting through to the second round would be some sort of victory for her (as it was for her father).:sick:

 

[maninasuitcase]

If immigration had no negative impact or cause strain on communities and services then why would there be a concern.
All that needs to happen is to plan and control where necessary.

Exactly, there always has to be bogeyman to blame for our country's ills. At the moment it is the EU and immigration among other things.

I have to wonder who we will turn on next if leaving the EU doesn't take us to the land of milk and honey we were promised during the run up to the vote.

Listen out for politicians who talk about us and them. If you are in the them camp, they will blaming you next.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Exactly, there always has to be bogeyman to blame for our country's ills. At the moment it is the EU and immigration among other things.

I have to wonder who we will turn on next if leaving the EU doesn't take us to the land of milk and honey we were promised during the run up to the vote.

Listen out for politicians who talk about us and them. If you are in the them camp, they will blaming you next.

Are there any queers in the theatre tonight?
Put them up against the wall.
There's one in the spotlight he don't look right to me
Put him up against the wall.

And that one looks jewish and that ones a ****
Who let all of this riff raff into the room.
There's one smoking a joint and another with spots
If I had my way
I'd have all of you shot.

The future is here folks.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-backlash-against-britons-living-in-the-eu

Not looking good for EU nationals in the UK.

What was that phrase again? "bargaining chips." :angry:

 

[rigsby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-backlash-against-britons-living-in-the-eu

Not looking good for EU nationals in the UK.

What was that phrase again? "bargaining chips." :angry:

I think the preferred phrase is Traitors.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think the preferred phrase is Traitors.

It might be your "preferred phrase" for a Monday.:winking:

 

[Benfleet A1]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-backlash-against-britons-living-in-the-eu

Not looking good for EU nationals in the UK.

What was that phrase again? "bargaining chips." :angry:

Expecting EU Nationals to up sticks from the UK is completely counter productive and will only cause an tit for tat situation in the future.

There was another story below the link concerning low and semi skilled jobs being more difficult to fill due lower arrival figures from countries whose people are prepared to do these jobs. It wont happen but perhaps the long term workshy can now fill these vacancies considering they were more than likely in favour of Leave because of all these foreigners in the first place.

 

[callan]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-backlash-against-britons-living-in-the-eu

Not looking good for EU nationals in the UK.

What was that phrase again? "bargaining chips." :angry:

Didn't May try and do a deal, but was blocked by Merkel + Tusk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ritish-voters-backed-brexit-creating-anxiety/

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Didn't May try and do a deal, but was blocked by Merkel + Tusk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ritish-voters-backed-brexit-creating-anxiety/

She still has to trigger Article 50 remember? Only after that can negotiations start in earnest.

 

[callan]

She still has to trigger Article 50 remember? Only after that can negotiations start in earnest.

It is important to remember that May wanted to settle this, it was the EU and Merkels refusal to do so.

You may think that EU workers and UK citizens are pawns and bargaining chips....and that may well be... however it is both the UK government and the EU at fault here....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It is important to remember that May wanted to settle this, it was the EU and Merkels refusal to do so.

You may think that EU workers and UK citizens are pawns and bargaining chips....and that may well be... however it is both the UK government and the EU at fault here....

I happen to think that all workers in the EU, (including those in the UK), are better off because of existing EU Labour laws and social legislation.

The EU nationals abroad issue will only begin to be settled, once the UK has formally applied to leave the EU and not before.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/shameful-betrayal-brexit-low-paid-eu

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think the preferred phrase is Traitors.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why you think that EU nationals working in the UK (and presumably UK citizens working elsewhere in the EU) are "traitors" ?